Jeff Bly Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I just got off the phone with a guy selling an anvil, says he's in the coal business. He suggested using anthrocite. Is that right? I know most people say they use bituminous coal. I don't really know the difference enough to say one way or the other. Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junksmith Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Someone gave me a lump of anthracite once. It burned very hot but was harder for me to start and keep burning than bituminous. I read online that some smiths mix the two. Me, I'm sticking with bituminous. I'm sure there are much more studied opinions than mine forthcoming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 "Good" Bituminous is much nicer to work with than anthracite. He may be a coal dealer---but is he a *blacksmith*! (Just like I have seen a number of anvils ruined by machinists and welders trying to "improve" them---they were quite skilled in their fields but didn't know enough about blacksmithing to be able to apply their skills properly to an anvil) Get a 5 gallon bucket of any proposed coal and use it for a day as a test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I have mixed Bituminous and Anthracite with acceptable results. It takes a steady blast of air to keep Anthracite burning that is why most people who use it mix it with Bituminous. If you can get good Bituminous, low sulfur, high BTU ie 13,500 or so, use it. If not smith with what you can get. Mixing Bituminous and Anthracite gives you a boost in the BTU value also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bly Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 Thanks for clearing this up for me guys. Now I understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob JS Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I have read that soft bituminous is preferable, and that hard coal is not because the sulfur leeches out carbon from the steel. My question : Is this only a problem for more critical work, like structural and bladesmithing? Would any old coal be suitable for general work? Obviously burning anything to get the metal hot is better than nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Low sulfur bituminous coal with good coking characteristics is the gold standard; but smiths have used everything from coconut husk charcoal to lignite to industrial coke as thast was what they had available. The sulfur does not "leech out carbon"; oxygen does that when the steel is hot. Sulfur makes the steel brittle and red short---much more a problem with a 1/16" blade than with a 1" bar of steel and so bladesmiths are much more picky about their fuel. I know several that use the local coal for general smithing and then use chunk charcoal for blades to avoid sulfur issues. One last thing a high sulfur coal can pretty well gas you out of the shop while it's coking up from green; so be sure you have a good chimney if you will be using it. (Neighbors complain as well). I once had to box fold some 3/8" plate. So I dug a trench forge in the back yard and used all that "gift" coal folk drop off---probably leftovers from when their houses were heated with coal and visible sulfur deposits in it. I filled the alleyway wall to wall with impenetrable smoke for the entire block as it was coking up. It was amazing! But it did the job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bly Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 So anthracite has a higher sulpher content that bituminous? And why use a softer coal than a harder coal? Is that why bituminous burns more readily than anthracite - the hardness, or rather, the softness of the coal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob JS Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 The sulfur does not "leech out carbon"; oxygen does that when the steel is hot. Sulfur makes the steel brittle and red short.. Thanks for nipping that idea in the bud - probably got my wires crossed. Looks like im going to have to start paying for coke soon - I think im too urban to get away with coal smoke, or charcoal making :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keykeeper Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Jeff, Try some of these topics in the lessons section. Very good info about coal, coal forges, etc.LB0003.0002 Coal Forges | Lessons in Blacksmithing You can also search the archives, tons of info about coal there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paragon53 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I can't remember if I read this on this forum or just surfing the web for info. But it was stated that Anthracite could add a little bit of carbon to the work? Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 No more than bituminous, charcoal or even a gas forge tuned reducing. Carbon is carbon... Generally folks will scale off the surface of a piece faster than they can soak carbon in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Bob; that's where the small, owner built, propane forge excells: *no visible smelly fumes* (the danger being the invisible ones; actually fewer toxins than coal smoke but as you don't have the visible or odor warning you it's easier to mistakenly ignore them.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I've recently tried to save money by burning anthracite. Compared to coke breeze, I found that it needs a higher blast. As it burns the size of the pieces decreases and they blow out and burn your hands. It was also more difficult to see into the fire as it seemed to be producing 'smuts' which covered the work. I spent a happy hour this afternoon cleaning the d**n stuff out of the hearth and replacing it with coke. It may be twice the price but it's worth every penny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bly Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 Thanks for the link KeyKeeper. I get so used to reading in the forums that I often forget to look in the BP's for helpful info and learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 For those enviromental green folks when you burn 1 lb of coal you produce 2.6 Lb of carbon dioxide. So light the fire, plant a tree and pound some metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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