pkrankow

That deserves a bookmark, thanks
Phil

Just need to train your cats better!

Phil

For that ID and 18 inches long you may need to put 4 burners in if you want welding temp. You are at the upper design limit of these burners. You can always throttle down or turn off extra burners, but if you don't have enough, you will never have enough.

Phil

PS This is why I changed the geometry of my design to an oval. I do not know if it is ideal either. I ordered insulation from Anvilfire today too. Gotta wait till next month to order the rest from Zoeller.
Phil

In the Hofi blueprints is a simple side-draft arrangement
BP1048 Side Draft Chimney | Blueprints 1000

Phil

I'll take a stab at reheating vs strength:

Every time you heat metal, the grain structure changes. The grain grows larger making it softer because larger grains are easier to deform than smaller grains. The more you work metal (hot or cold) the smaller the grain becomes so the metal is more difficult to deform: It is stronger. For the time it takes a smith to work metal hot, the grain is getting bigger much faster than the our ability to work it smaller, therefore the fewer heats taken the stronger the metal is against deformation when done. For cold working the grain cannot reform larger, so work hardening occurs.

The difference is quite noticeable since normalized (heated red, then air cooled) metal is much easier to bend, drill, or machine. The ultimate (fracture) strength won't change but strength of plastic (permanent) deformation will. When you are making a tool, plastic deformation strength is more important than ultimate strength, as you want the tool to keep its shape.

Since the the chemistry will change with carbon diffusing out of steel relatively fast. In some cases atmospheric gasses diffusing INTO the metal can be a problem. Fewer heats will prevent the chemistry from changing. With some metals, such as copper, reheating will drive oxygen into the metal, causing dissolved oxides making the metal more brittle. Changes in chemistry make the strength difference greater.

Don't confuse this with heat treating for hardening and tempering. In those processes you are trying to change the state or phase of the crystals from one form to another, then freeze it in the new state. Hardening is a fast process so grain size changes relatively little, even though changing phase will change volume.

I'm sure a metallurgist will call this oversimplified, and I may have missed some important points, so if you know more please elaborate or correct.

Phil

I'm no help on where to start, but my dad was a mechanic, so I started wrenching at a very young age. I helped rebuild several auto and boat engines by third grade.

Growing up I helped my dad with cold forming of sheet metal for brackets, and when the furnace was replaced, duct work. We had a professional make the major sections, but all the installation, customization, and build-in-place was done by my parents, brothers and myself.

The garage step and a short piece of RR track served as anvils of sorts for straightening and bending all sorts of metal bits. I think my dad had us bang metal on the step so he could hear where we were and what trouble we were (not) causing.

Phil

Try running through the dishwasher. That takes the seasoning off cast iron pans. I finish my pans with shortening in the oven as I find oil to be sticky when done. A few coats of shortening is glossy like that, but will have no bubbles whether you rub it in hot, or cold then heat.

You could also build a campfire.

Phil

When I was younger and played role playing games, I built a Whitewolf mage character on this principle. I have encountered the concept of blacksmith as a mystical person, but rarely a hero, in the fantasy genera (some of which can be called literature).

Phil

So do you use a small pump and a dip tube to move fluid, or is your plumbing welded in? Is moving the fluid going to improve quench versus just moving the object for smaller objects (knife, punch, chisel, hammer head, etc.)?

Do you use a basket on the bottom in case you drop something?

Phil

Moving the Earth again Archimedes?

Phil

I bet he used a marking tool to lay out punch holes for stitching. That's the only way my leather work looks like anything other than "functional" I have had poor luck with direct stitching through leather even using a sail makers palm. The thread is also laying in a neat groove.

Ain't west system great?
Phil

Very nice information. I'm saving this one for later use.
Phil

I am building a 2 burner forge that is 11 inches long. The ceramic wool comes 24 inches long. I have found many many MANY websites of smiths using forges about a foot long. Calculate your volume and figure 200-350 cu inch per 3/4 inch burner. Choosing which burners are lit is nice, running more than needed is a waste of fuel. Frosty and I were discussing which single burner is best to run, but never came to a conclusion other than one more valve is cheap.

Before you decide on the length think about what you plan to make, and think about the longest item you expect to build. You can always build a larger forge in a few years once you have skills to take on larger projects.

Phil

If you replace your bricks, save those bricks for when your Vogelzang wood stove cracks a brick, or you need a sacrificial brick for fluxing, or need to set red hot metal down to cool. I bought a box of 6 of those bricks for $20 last year at the local big box store, and they have utility. 2 are keeping my wood fireplace grate in position. Hot borax seems to do nothing to them at least, although I only have used borax once. I *was* going to use them as a gas forge floor, but I'm going to order a 12x12 from Zoeller and cut it to fit.

Just my $0.02.

Phil

I have tried white shortening (Crisco) and find that 2 coats in a 300F or hotter oven (I used 450F while cooking dinner) give an nice black gloss to the few leaves I have made. I got that idea after reading about everybody that uses oil, and remembering how bad of a time I had using oil on my cast iron cookware (gets sticky sometimes). I was told by a chef friend to use shortening on my cookware. I might switch to another finish as I make more stuff, but I am pleased with my results so far.

Phil

Just call it a spud, I go fishing with mine when it's not standing in the corner, digging holes, moving rocks, or something. Makes good holes in the ice, though it's not quite that robust. Feel free to store one at my place too. Mine is only 1 inch round for most of its length.

Phil

That is a handy feature!
Phil

Cherry pits are $5 for 30#. They cost less by the ton. They are a waste product from the cherry orchards in Michigan. I bought a bag, but don't have a solid fuel forge. Expect it to be a quite a while before I give an opinion.

Phil

I do not recall you mentioning that they "don't work" outside of a forge. You did mention that they are tuned for use inside of a forge. I lack a Dremel, so I am using a 4 1/2 inch angle grinder with cutoff wheels. Every time I have cut a contact tip the hole is closed up most or all of the way, no matter how slowly I go. The mill file opens up the hole a little, but leaves a bunch of junk inside of it. Passing the torch tip cleaning tool is not very difficult. The first few tips I cut, I cleaned the hole, filed, then cleaned the hole again. I was also trying to get final dimensions with the grinder.

My drill press only goes forward, cheap HF job. Maybe I should try the hand drill in the vice? I think I need to unpack some moving boxes, because I know I have a mini die grinder somewhere, and that has some small, very thin cutoff wheels with it.

I was expecting the burner to focus heat in open air a little better for some reason. These are definitely not comparable to a rosebud torch, or even a plumbing torch, the heat is much more diffuse. I also noticed that in my brick pile, with the flame traveling along one brick, the hottest spot is a few inches from the flame holder, not right against it. Heat seemed to spread faster away from the burner, though eventually the brick was glowing right up to the burner.

Thanks for all the help so far Frosty.

Phil

I have an old file screaming at me to be put to use. Thanks for all the good information!
Phil

$70 at a flea market in Wisconsin, 2009, cut face, nicked to heck, edges broke off, heel broken off at hardy. No brand, markings etc. Casting marks visible in the bottom. I suspect it is cast steel, but might be cast iron. Has some rebound when I miss (more than a HF ASO) and some ring. 68 pounds on the bathroom scale. Wire wheeled and lightly sanded. (Don't sand your anvil)

Phil

I'm using a Belkin wireless router with 4 wired ports. You log into it from a wired machine following the directions, set up network name, password(s) and wireless encryption. Every few weeks I need to pull the plug and let it reboot because wireless gets flaky, but I otherwise ignore it. I dunno if it really increases my security, but it makes life easy with the desktop, laptop, and guests. I use an easy to remember phrase for a public password. I have it plugged into the battery back up with the modem. I have cable telephone through the same modem.

I had an old Microsoft router before, but gave it to my mom when I upgraded to this one. Make sure you get wireless G or better, I think N is the current best standard. The newer stuff is faster, more secure, and works with older equipment.

Phil

He never mentioned lard, but he knows I don't normally keep lard around.

The chamfer on the tip was barely visible with the naked eye. I made it removing the burr that formed on the outside while cleaning the tip with a drill bit. No spiral marks on the inside.

Took one of the contact tips and cut it back to 3/8 inch removed, filed it on the outside to shape and correct the length. Then I used the torch tip file to clean the inside. After a few passes I was very happy that the edge was clean.

The burner did not act nice in open air, and was hard to keep lit, but no swirl of flame. When I put it into my brick pile it acted very nicely. I think it was even putting out more heat than yesterday. The pile warmed up much quicker and reheat was also much quicker.

I tried to make a smaller leaf, and texture it using the flame cut end of a short piece of RR track. This took a lot fewer heats, maybe 10 or so. Took less than 30 minutes this time too. I like it enough that its going on my keys, but I'm not satisfied with it.

3 inch overall seems a good size as most of my keys are about that size.

Pics are as forged, no finish. I might not put a finish on it and see what happens.

Phil

I read an article on how to use torch tip cleaning files, and I think I created a chamfer on the business end of the orifice, a very big no-no, if not *THE A#1* no-no. The sharper the edge the better the separation of gas from the orifice. Basic fluid dynamics.

A set of files are less that $10 at a number of places, so I go shopping tomorrow! I guess I better check the change jar tonight.

Phil

I need to get a torch tip cleaning file, I don't have one yet. I was removing a burr that formed from metal being pushed in from the abrasive wheel and bastard file as I trimmed and shaped. Completely sealed the tip.

Here are some pics as promised.

My brick pile before it got good and hot, the as-forged leaf, and the leaf finished with 2 coats of white Crisco backed in the oven at 475F (dinner was at that temp) According to a friend who is a chef, for cast iron cookware, shortening builds a better black non-stick finish than oil because it is partially hydrolyzed. Figured I would see how it held up.

Phil