pkrankow

Here's where I started: I did get some stuff wrong and as I worked came to solutions.
http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/122271-post20.html

http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/122282-post21.html

http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/122309-post22.html

While I agree with Frosty on giving too much fine detail as your parts will be different and you will need to make adjustments, I am going to tell what I did. Remember that your BRAIN is your most powerful tool, use it and make adjustments accordingly.

Parts list per burner:
0.035 inch contact tips. These have 1/4-28 threads on them.
1/8 MPT to 1/4 compression fitting (all stores in my area sell the same brand)
1 x 1 x 3/4 black iron T. The 3/4 comes off the side.
3/4 x 6 inch pipe nipple

Tool list:
#3 drill bit, HSS, dulled slightly.
#P drill bit
3/4 to 1/2 inch reducing bushing
1/2 inch MPT to 1/2 inch hose fitting
drill bit that fits inside above hose barb smoothly.(I used 25/64, you may need a different size)
Drill press (hand drill will work well here as we build a jig)
1/8 inch tapered pipe tap
1/4-28 tap
wrenches, file etc.
vice

process:
Pic 1 shows the first burner I made with the parts to make the next before I started.

Pic 2 & 3 I build up a jig out of the reducing bushing and the hose barb to fit a drill bit. This bit is much LARGER than the finished hole. so we are just making a spot to center the correct drill bit.

Pic 4 & 5 I complete the hole with the correct size bit. I went undersized to #P (from #R)as my first try did not thread completely. Using the jig with some tape on the drill would likely help keep things more true, especially if using a hand drill.

Pic 6 I dulled the #3 drill bit by filing the back side of the cutting surface. This is to prevent the drill from sucking into the brass and going crooked or causing personal injury.

Pic 7 My cheap drill press vice needed a spacer to close tightly. I used another fitting to space my jaws out on the opposite side. I am very careful to restrain my vice so it will not be picked up by the drill. check alignment several times then go for it. I do not know how to do this with a hand drill other than being very careful in a bench vice.

Pic 8 tap all the way through. Yes you don't need to go that far, but I lack bottom taps and wanted to be sure.

Pic 9 I tapped my T, but did NOT go all the way in. I only want the male pipe thread on the compression fitting to go in as far as the pipe is thick. This is because Frosty says tuning for lean involves shortening the length of the contact tip from about 3/4 inch to 5/8 inch. I will do that after my forge is built so I can tune into the proper space.

Pic 10 I have all my completed parts and am ready for assembly. I will be using muffler assembly putty (Muffler Mender) on the threads as they will get hot, and pipe dope is for lower temperatures. This is recommended on the antique lanterns I use (my current fire fix, search for Petromax). Be careful to not get any INSIDE the contact tip. If you ever need to take this apart, the muffler putty will crumble with a few light taps of a wrench or pliers.

Pic 11 Here are my complete burners, they are practically identical, but will require individual tuning when I put them in service.

pic 12 & 13 This is one of my burners lit. I am trying to show heat on an old fireplace rack, but in the 5 minutes I let it run, it did not start to glow. My flame is rich, which according to Frosty means that my contact tips need to be shortened. He recommends locking them in a drill chuck and using an abrasive tool like a dremmel to cut them nicely. I think I need to remove about 1/8 inch. I will do so when I get my forge built and can test it in the cavity.

Pic 14 is taken from Ron Reil's website and shows flame color for rich neutral and lean nicely.

I need to build the rest of my system and tune it properly. I am going to use copper tubing from the compression fittings to my valved manifold. I am unsure if the use of an idle circuit is worth the complexity, but plan to put one in anyways. I do not have a pressure gauge yet as I am using a "Mr. Heater" 30-60 psi regulator, it says it can regulate down to 0 psi (it can), but is intended for the upper range. I will put a gauge onto the manifold when it is built. I intend to use a 16 gallon drum which has an outside diameter of 14 inches as my shell. I am going to line with 3 inches of ceramic wool insulation and a coating of heat reflecting refractory (itc100 or similar) with fire brick as the forge floor. I am thinking about "squishing" my drum by 2 inches to make it 12 x 15 3/4 to reduce cavity volume and increase floor space. It will be 18 inches long with doors to reduce the openings to 4x6 or so.
I hope to post a finished forge in a month or two, as I blew all my hobby money on tools and parts to make these burners.

Hope you like it
Phil

An old machinist set me up with some "baby poop" it's some sae20 oil, baking soda, and chalk. There may be something else in it too, but I don't remember seeing anything else when he mixed it. If you are dealing with work-hardened holes, or larger bottom tapping, this stuff is the best. Keep it in a closed container, glass or metal. I wish I had the exact recipe, but it was about getting consistency. If you have had kids, you will understand (I didn't at the time, but do now). It's non-fluid, but slightly runny and sticky, sorta like what the name implies. It tends to not separate for WEEKS after mixing, and then only a slight amount of oil comes to the top.
The summer I spent in a machine shop we were cleaning up some parts that failed inspection, threaded sleeves something like 1 1/2 or 2 inch diameter threads. We would lock them in a vice, goop up the bottom tap with "baby poop" and thread it in as far as it would go by hand, then put a wrench and a 6 ft cheater bar on it. Then 2 of us would crank it through the last 5 or 6 turns. Good times! The first unit we wasted a pint of tap magic on (might have been 4 oz really).
I do like tap magic for "normal" holes though.
I have a small jar of this stuff from that summer, and it is fantastic for drilling in easily hardened metal too. I think I need to experiment and make more soon.
Phil

I like how the compression fitting eliminates the need for tapping for the contact tip. Or does it? In a different thread you posted today it sounds like you just use tap the compression fitting for the contact tip and throw out the rest of the parts to it.
I keep reading about people worried about the compression fitting failing...I've never seen a fitting fail on a _water_ system except when it was messed with, or right after installation. On gas systems do I want to limit my use of compression fittings to the ABSOLUTE minimal necessary? I intended to plumb from my manifold to the burners with non-rigid copper and compressions fittings, one at the manifold and one at the burner. Would I be better off to use brass or steel rigid pipe and build my manifold mount after I build everything else? Would using a double flare connector (like on brake lines) be significantly better vs compression (or worse than rigid)?
I did pick up a HF drill press, so I should be able to drill through the "bottom" of the T. Center punching first is a no-brainer? Do you pilot drill with a smallish diameter (say 1/4 inch) drill first then finish your drilling or go all at once for the measured final size based on your fittings?
Sounds like the crosses are more complexity then they may be worth.
Would mounting the burner with a no-weld device similar to Zoeller's be equally effective, or should I really pack up my pieces and head to Dad's to weld them up? Is your method just more cost effective or are there other benefits? The welder is on the wish list...but may not arrive for a year or two.
I must also remember to open "calculator" and double check my mental math.
I intend to use a 16 gallon drum with 3 inches of insulation for my forge. I could make it 24 inches long, but do not think I can get welding temperature from only 3 burners. I was thinking 16-18 inches long, then I will have enough insulation to build doors. (from 10 running feet of 24 inch width) I am interested in decorative items including gates, scroll work, and hinges, but want to try Damascus (and possibly wootz).
Would "squishing" the drum by 2 inches as a means of reducing my total volume and increasing floor area be a good idea? Volume per inch is reduced from 50 cu inch per inch length to about 35 cu inch per inch length. That would make the outside 12 tall and 15 3/4 wide. The inside would be 6 tall and 9 3/4 wide instead of 8 inches round (before installing the shelf). Total volume at 18 inches long would be 900 cu inch for round and 630 cu inch for squished elliptical.
Installing the burners to heat left of center, mounted at about 2 o'clock seems to be considered very nice by most people. Tangential entry for a forge seems to be much more controversial, but seems preferred for a foundry.
If you had a 68# steel anvil (no make on it, actual weight) with the heal broken off at the hardy and pritchel holes, had a flat top, level horn and badly chipped edges, would you A) attempt to repair the anvil, replace the anvil ASAP, or C) use the anvil as such and find an alternative for the hardy and pritchel. (yes I paid $50 for it at a flea market, should have tried to talk him down further, was marked at $70)
Lastly I apologize for taking this thread somewhere I think it was not going. My forge design is really not taking Db levels into account.
Phil

... 3/4" naturally aspirated "T" (my design) burners ... Most of the time I only need a small chamber, usually under 300 cu/in so a 1" burner is WAY more than necessary and wasteful of fuel.
Frosty

Frosty,
So your T's are 3/4 inch and the pipe is 3/4 inch? About how long is the final piece of pipe? Does the length of pipe need to be tuned? Using the 8 diameters guide makes the pipe about 6 inches long...Does it work well with a longer pipe? Should I start with an 8 inch pipe and cut it down till it works best?
What size is your orifice? Are you using MIG contact tips (your picture seems to indicate so)?
Would using a black iron pipe cross and a plug work easier for someone of limited machining capability? There are some brass pipe-to-hose nipples that hold a piece of 1/8 inch brass pipe near perfectly, allowing for a slip fit. A compression clamp (U-bolt) similar in function to an exhaust clamp would lock the pipe solid in place after adjusting, since soldering is not recommended, or rather, strongly discouraged in this system.
I understand that you use a lamp tube to pass through the wall of the T. Using a tap & die set is there a better way, or is the adjustment in this part of the system that important? Do you need to tune the depth of the fuel nozzle in the T, or is it pretty darn good all the way back?
Do you use a choke? If so, what type of choke do you use?
Have I forgotten any questions?

You seem to be a respected and knowledgeable person on this forum, but when talking about your own designs you just post tantalizing tidbits and pictures, without clear specifics(yes I know my system will vary from yours or anyone else). I have read many of your posts about this T burner, and I feel I am resorting to pumping you hard for information.

You and several others seem to feel that the linear Reil burner, while very effective, has stability problems when used in an outdoor environment due to cross drafts. At this point in my design I would rather select a better way than waste the pieces I already have. I intend to use my (not yet built) forge outside or at least in open air, such as the open garage door.

Thank you for your time and effort.
Phil

Works with copper too and if I ever find a bronze brush I'll give that a shot.

Frosty

Go to your local marina or boat supply store and ask for bronze wool. (or look it up online) The stuff is uses to refinish teak wood because the bits that fall off won't corrode in the marine environment.
Phil

Thanks Ken. I think I need new tools again. 1/4-28 tap & matching drill bit. The thread gauge with my current set of taps has only those sizes on it.
Phil

I like how you did the wedges to fasten the head. The scroll shape is cool and probably very functional. Prettier than just a straight wedge.

Anyone make a side arm burner using a tee and the straight reduction fitting? basicly a Reil style burner but with a t fitting so you can do the side arms Mig tip type holder?

I tried that for my test burner but never was able to sustain fire. I found a brass 1/2 inch NPT to 1/2 inch hose allowed the 1/8 inch brass fuel pipe to pass with no slop. I planned to solder it when adjusted, but I think my regulator was bad and have since replaced it (without retesting this design). I felt the design was complex and heavy, so I decided to take it apart and start over.

I am building three Reil style burners using a slotted pipe nipple to hold the fuel tube in place and axial chokes. My forge body will be a 16 gallon drum with 3 inches of ceramic wool insulation. I just am unsure of what size MIG contact tip to buy for 3/4 inch pipe, and what thread is on said contact tip.

I pilfered a .030 from my dad's spares for his Hobart welder, but it appears metric...

Phil