Alan Evans

I have just bought a 3 phaze high pressure blower to feed my school forges in a ring main.......
I will have the blower mounter out of the school.

If you make up one of the boxes I described above you would save yourself the hassle of holes through the wall and weather proofing the fan and electrics...they also make a useful surface for yet more clutter!

I heard a tale of a smith using a similar big diameter narrow bladed three phase fan. He just used to fire up the motor and then turn it off, they rotate for minutes afterwards, when it finally died down he would give it another pulse, he reckoned it halved his electricity consumption!


ps @ basher if you want a spare three phase fan I have ended up with two or three. I would like a spare Alcosa F20M so if you have or come across one of those let me know for a swap!

Another reason is that the blower itself is incredibly noisey and gets on my nerves a bit. I'd rather just have the fire 'ticking over' most of the time.

I put all my fans into 20/25mm thick plywood boxes and have an indirect (baffled) air inlet, they are rubber mounted in the boxes and the boxes sit on rubber feet to counter any vibration. I use a flexible hose (industrial vacuum cleaner) to connect to the slide valve. The mig cooling fan is louder than the 1hp three phase fan now...it is a 500 amp 1970's Norman Butters mig with a big fan I should add!

The three phase fan is an induction motor and cannot be simply controlled so is running flat out constantly and the slide valve does it all.

Peter Parkinson did this at Farnham Art school where there were 8 fans going for a full class and the constant noise was awful, transformed the forge.
Dick Quinnel had a big fan outside and a piped system to all the forges at Rowhurst.
Nigel Barnet made up a similar piped distribution system for the BABA forge-in hearths using grey plastic rainwater/drain tubes

I made up a speed controller for the Alcosa F20m fan from components from RS. I also made up a 25amp one which is great for slowing down an angle grinder if you want to grind a knife blade and not get too much heat. These are not cheap like your light dimmer but they are robust. 5 years ago the components were 60 odd pounds You could be better off buying a dedicated speed controller from Machine Mart, they do them for their ventilation fans. 18 years ago they were 15 pounds!

Hope some of that helps. Alan

I'm thinkin of using this on my blower motor. Any comments ?

http://www.harborfre...itch-96619.html

Looks like it would be a pain, why not use the switch on the wall?

The huge advantage of a blower over bellows is that you are not tied to the forge whist heating, you can get on and do other stuff.

I won't log that one away until you do remember! It may have been to help with anaemia but it might have been a 'cure' for nagging mother in laws!

I have used it as an abrasive, just rub the hand hammer face in it, and as a texturing medium if I want to lose a welded and or a ground surface, although depending on the subsequent finish I find a needle descaler brilliant for creating and blending a "hot scaled" looking surface.

I suppose I come somewhat closer to the odd tinful on the shelf than the bobcat loader bucket per shift, certainly not enough to warrant a trip to a paint manufacturer, but a bit too much to put in the household rubbish. I did start building up a pile beside the scrap heap, did wonder about putting it into the swarf bin and risk the wrath of the scrap dealer....

The leather dye and the quench idea sound interesting, will log those away for future reference

I use a mix of rennaissance wax and graphite for punch lubrication, but when punching under the hammer used to use the coke or coal dust as a release aid, more in faith than certainty, it still got stuck sometimes! I discovered the graphite and wax thing on behalf of a student I was helping hot punch aluminium which kept adhering to the punch and leaving ragged holes. It does tend to dry up in the pot and you need to keep thinning it down with white spirit but works well. I have just started mixing the graphite with Molyslip metal lubricant and that seems to stay liquid indefinitly, just doesn't smell as good when burning off!

Does anybody have a good idea for using or disposing of oxide/scale?

The stuff I am talking about is what collects around the powerhammer anvil, especially when using a gas furnace.

I have done a bit of a search and could not find anything apart from possibly giving it to a potter to use in a glaze or adding it to the ballast in concrete.

I am meant to be delivering a piece over Easter...have not actually started it yet...so probably towards the end of the trip after Easter would suit me for any gathering. If they were passing by earlier and wanted a stopover that would also be fine, it does not have to be a single visit...

Hi sorry not to have been responding I have been away for a few long days, helping with an installation. I am happy to offer venue and bed space(s) either as proto forge-in or at least tour of toy shed(s).

The area I will struggle to provide/host will be comestibles. It is my sad fate to live with a brilliant cook, so I don't. Unfortunately she is in Columbia during most of April.

Usually I give my work a good wire brushing and then coat the decorative stuff in Renaissance Wax and the eating stuff in a food-oil.

That seems reasonably instant to me!

The advantages of rubbing it with a block of beeswax when black hot would be the drama of the smoke (and hopefully flames) for the audience...the smell would be a definite plus for them too. Normal longevity disadvantages of beeswax apply, sticky at room temperature and the organic inclusions breaking down forming corrosion points, but hey! that's showbiz!

How do you apply the Renaissance Wax normally? I make up my own and make it very thin, (think pourable) so I can apply it fast with a paint brush.

I would think a finish with a bit of creep like a wax would be best given that you are not able to brush and remove all lightly adhering surface layers. If a bit of scale pops off taking the lacquer with it, no more finish, at least wax would creep over or get redistributed by handling.

What can I do ? I have finished my piece of work, wire brushed it including using a twisted cup brush on an angle grinder to remove as much scale as possible, brought it to a black heat and applied a wax finish. The colour is perfect but, I can still see too much scale for my liking. What can I try next to rectify this situation ?

I like the character you have caught in the horse.

I have found this a really interesting and informative and thought provoking thread thank you everybody.

One thing which does occur to me to contribute is that there is an advantage to be had if the final finish of a piece is determined at the outset of the project.

You can then choose
either the bit of rusty stock or the new smooth bar;
the surfaces of your anvil and hammer can be polished or matt,
the atmosphere of the heat source can be oxidising to increase the scale or carburising/neutral to reduce it,
you can brush the scale off prior to forging or leave it on,
you can finish working at red heat in order to leave a lot of scale on or work it to black to refine and smooth the surface
leave it with the forming hammer marks in evidence or smooth it out with a flatter


Then there are all the finishing process options.

Every hammer blow should be eloquent, and every part of the process should contribute to the spirit of the piece.

Like all good philosophies this does not mean of course that you should work to a preconceived format exclusively...following your nose and extemporising is how we develop our skills, sensitivities and create the new and is therefore equally valid!

Have I talked myself full circle?

...or as we malt drinkers say the sense of aroma

the movies makers say the sensorama

I wonder how many more there are?

ah yes, the scent of humour!

There may be some rare exeptions to this but generally it holds true!

except when...

You will be very welcome, providing you are not too quiet.

Ah yes! Well I remember rejoicing when I qualified to join the Pedantic Young Farts' Association on leaving college 40 years ago....well 38 years 9 months 3 days and 2 hours ago from....now! I hasten to add in order to maintain eligibility of membership to the Pedantic Old Fart's Association to which I have now graduated!

Okay you two I know its a conspiracy...


@ThomasPowers, yes but, no but...I originally wrote out the age and work hardening factors to qualify my statement, but edited them out because I thought it was verbose enough...how wrong I was! :)

I would agree regarding the bend creep on successive bends and would also agree with you if the piece had been bent to a tight radius relative to its cross sectional area. I did not think either of these conditions were in evidence. It appeared to me to be only a minor clonk which could be straightened with a minor clonk in the opposite direction!

@ianinsa, while I am under attack from all comers I will pick you up on your earlier statement "And then one gets the very memorable opportunity to bend the shaft at the point of entry into the crankcase!!!!" I thought that these foot rests were attached to brackets on the steel frame of the bike rather than a spindle through the alloy casing. But 1) I only had a 1930 BSA 250 and an Ariel leader and 2) I might have been thinking of the 'rear-sets and clip-ons' my mates put on their Beezer bikes for that racing look.

Having written this out twice, and having lost it all once, I reckon I have spent longer explaining and justyfing it all than Beth took to do the job, I am off to work!

Ooh! that sounds interesting I will have a play with that system, thank you. Really brilliant for hot surface protection.

I did have to mix graphite with aluminium paint to try and reproduce the original shot blast, rotary wirebrush burnished lacquered and waxed finish I had done on a series of balustrades I had made. The building contractor managed to strip off the lacquer with some chemical poultice fumes when he was taking out water stains from the marble floor.

 

On 1/19/2012 at 11:38 PM, harrismetalsmith said:

Hey! I was wondering if you who mix graphite in with paint, could share your recipes. Is it a formula or a dab al do ya?

 

I have used it quite a lot. Differently though from the earlier posters.

I use flake graphite and add it into the spray gun pot around a couple of tablespoons per pot, do a test and add a bit more if necessary. I take the little in-pot filter out because that always blocks. I spray it through a Devilbiss HVLP gravity gun but also used to use a Devilbiss JGA suction pot and the same gun with a pressure pot, all work fine.

I mix it with a synthetic enamel semi matt / eggshell paint and use that for the top/graphite coat. Depending on the protection required for the project, it could be galvanised or zinc flame metalised etch primed undercoated and gloss coated and then graphited or just blasted, primed and graphited.

Just as the paint is going off I burnish with either a shoe brush (which gives a very soft black) or a bit of hardish cloth, Levis denim works well, and really brings up the highlights leaving the hollows sooty black.

The great thing is that any forged surfaces magically reappear when you burnish the graphite even after they have apparently been obliterated by the protective layers, but you know that I guess which is why you are asking about the process!

+1 on the warning about customer contact with the product...not so good on handrails and door handles!

An interesting development I have done with the process is to use it with eggshell red and eggshell blue. The red makes it look like the piece is still hot and the blue looks very sophisticated and cool but unfortunately the blue fades if outside.

The largest project I have used it on required 8 assistants all rubbing like crazy before the paint went off!

I bought a 20kg sack of graphite after I had identified the correct mesh grade (200 mesh). Before committing to 20kg try a sample!

If you have access to an engineering supplies place that stocks Rocol products get a can of Foliac flake graphite 2A though you will pay a lot per kilo that way. I paid 15 pounds for the 20kg in 1995 at the same time a 750g foliac can was 14 pounds (I have just looked out my finishing file for you, my memory is not that good!) I have to say that I still have more than half of my 20 kg. sack left though!

Have fun.

p.s. I have just looked at the Rocol web site and they do not appear to list the flake graphite 2A anymore, may be just a web site designer typo?

 

I am sorry you did not end up in Whiteway, there could have been three smiths in the village, although Ben has moved on now. It would have been like in its hey day in the nineteen twenties when my grandparents were invited over to set up a craft cooperative, they were leather workers. My mum lives in what was originally their workshop/showroom.

I have been over to see Mark and he thinks the Parrots were from a carnival float in Bridgewater. He also currently has a large fibre glass Buddha and a pineapple! He said 400 for the pair but then decided he would be sorry to see them go and said 500. I said you lived close and he could always borrow them back, he would be open to interesting offers of course!

@blackersmith that sage advice comes about 38 years late B) luckilly it helped build up a rapid learning curve.

But just to clarify "does it help if you get the girl you were gawking at to retrace her steps?"However Getting her to wipe the silly grin off her face would seem impossible!
Ian

Yes it would help, yes it would be impossible.

I am afraid my sage advice has never pertained in my dealings with the fair sex....this thread being a case in point!

I did however figure out how to add a reverse gear to the bike if your interested....get a worn chain and twist it into figure of eight like the old flat belts they used to drive the the threshing tackle with traction engines....I'll get my hat.

Blackersmith, I would guess this is exactly what Murphy(as in Murphy's law) would have you do--- And then one gets the very memorable opportunity to bend the shaft at the point of entry into the crankcase!!!! B) while the" bent arm" remains bent. B) Please don't take umbrage at my comment just ask me WHY I SHOULD THINK THAT WOULD HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!! :D Ian

Ahah! Been there, bent and b****red it have you! I would have to guess that you did not follow my advise and manage to reverse the forces exactly but got too close to the shaft. Other wise the shaft should have also been bent when the damage was done first time around....what you needed to do was fit a reverse gear to the bike and then approach the bit of gravel on the peak of the corner at the same speed backwards and get off at the same point! :)

I must admit my main concern was for the splines.

@Beth I am glad you were successful anyway!

The key to all blacksmithing which I have to remind myself when I am having problems is, "let the heat do the work"!

When upsetting, controlling heat creep is crucial. I find it much easier to heat with the oxy acetylene torch rather than using the hearth and trying to quench back to isolate the movement area. You can even hit while continously playing the torch on it, especially when upsetting mid bar.

+1 on the hand held air hammers as described above

I thought they looked like drop forgings too and was glad to read about the telltales described by the experts.

I would also think they were foot rests that were bent when the bike was dropped at some time, can you see any scuff marks on the ends where they scraped along the tarmac?

I was told many years ago that if it bent cold it is best usually to straighten cold. The rational I came up with for this being that the maximum movement will be at the same place relative to the cross sectional area of the piece. If you use heat you may get the thicker part to unbend too much if you see what I mean!

Try and envisage where the forces were exerted to bend and twist it out of shape and then reverse them. I would be inclined to fit them back on the bike frame securely and slide a bit of tube over the foot rest; right to the corner to untwist the main arm and halfway out to straighten the rest bar itself. The tube should be a reasonable fit and have an internal chamfer or radius so that it does not bruise the workpiece.

Definitely +1 on informing the client that there is a risk of damage involved before you start.

If the roadway is too narrow to open the gates outwards from this position, move the gateposts inwards up the slope by the width of the gate leaf?

Suggest to the client that they could then commission a blacksmith to make two panels to run from the posts to roadway....purely in the interest of maintaining their boundary of course!

That sure looks like it does the trick! One thing that I have done is to wrap an old towel, cut down to a hand width strip and shortened, then wrap it around the stock between the hot end and the hand end. Soak it a bit before use, wring it out to keep it from dripping all over the place. Then when in use and while heating stock dribble some water on the wraped towel to keep it wet and cool. Caleb Ramsby

I use this system as well.

I found that hessian sacking was the thing that lasts longest. I wrap it around the stock wet and have a bucket /basin underneath with a dipper. Every time I pass by I keep dipping and pouring...most of the excess drains back into the bucket! When I take the bar out of the furnace I unwrap and drop the sack into the bucket ready for the next one.

I always promised myself I would make an air curtain one day, now I am going to have to promise myself to make a blasted tee piece mister one day as well!