Mills

From what I understand, they are just bigger. I have seen some pictures of large ones and listened to the industrial smiths that hang around, there doesn't seem to be any magic. The tongs that I make for 1 and 2" stock are along the poz tong variety with more metal in the neck and boss.

Clifton Ralph put out a film on the use of hammers and tongs. He is very knowledgable on large forging. One thing I picked up on was that he used pincer tongs a lot. Set the hot steel on the dies and use tongs with two hands to manuever it around. See YouTube - Industrial Blacksmithing-Slug Punching a Hole, Part Two for some ideas along this line.

I bought 5 pairs of tongs (OCP) about 10 yrs ago. burned one up with some help, lost one gave one away and now have a v bit left that stays nominally around the 3/8th to 5/8 range.

Since then I have made 20-30 pair of tongs which are just now starting to work and function as well as the original store bought. I'll take some time to make up some blanks then create what I need on the fly so to speak.

My favorite is using 5/8ths rd and make 2 90 tongs. On the end of the bar near side of anvil create the flat tapered jaw, turn 90 degrees go to far side of anvil and set the boss for the rivet, turn 90 degrees and set the area behind the boss for the rein transition, then draw out the reins down to 3/8ths rd. Drawing the reins is GREAT practice and should be done to keep your skills in tune.

Summary: Having an example or 5 of what a GOOD pair of tongs looks and works like was very useful to keep me banging away to a finish line. Now I know when MY tongs are good enough. I still need to practice though. Hope my saga helps.

Thanks for the picture. I think I'll give that a whirl. I see some other uses for that as well. Will let you know how I fare.

I am trying my hand at this, started today. I am using some scrap stock to work out the steps. I went to the trouble of fabbing spring tool to get the correct angle. Nah that pretty well sucked. next was free hand on flat dies and a taper tool, way too slow.

I have taken some pictures of the results but the files are too large and I am unable to find the resolution adjustment on this software. Will try again later.

I am curious on what tooling ya'll use to do this work. I understand (I believe) about the nippers and removing the end. What of actually forging the point?

I recommend a 100lb but wrestling that in and out of a prius not a good option. So in that case I think 2-5 20lb would be a good choice. As far as manifolding it would be a great idea. I never have, just set one in a tub of water and kept going, BUT I am in Central Oklahoma. YMMV. ;)

An interesting idea that industry pays good money for engineers to find out. How do we optimize our operation? (reduce the fuel bill). A good part of that answer is in record keeping. A diary format was how I approached a similar situation with ammunition. I would change loads and record the data, it was very valuable when I later had a brainstorm and discovered I had already tried it.

I can't help you on your question specifically, my instinct is that this is an academic project, not much cost savings realized for the effort involved. YMMV. May work out very well for you.

I don't believe I would pursue that since it will require 2 sources of fuel. I like simplicity until it is cheaper to get complex.

It is plausible, possible and well within the limits of safety and reason. It may give you a new insight into forge construction that will pay dividends down the road. No telling what you may learn. I kind of view it as a ceramic forge but with consumable 'ceramics'

One method would be to use a couple of metal clamps to hold a handle on.. Saw that suggested in the cosira book for 6" square or something like that.

At 14" if your working an end no tongs needed, a glove maybe. If your just fooling around the 1x1/2 would make a good size of tongs for holding the 3/4" and bigger.

There you go Rusty, you are in prime country for good folks. As TDean said I'm in Norman and you have those fine folks just next door. The conference would be a good place to go to make aquaintances.

To do the job by code, the main will need to be larger, which means it will need larger wire to feed it. To do it other than by code is something you would need to do yourself. There are many work arounds, some of which are dangerous no matter what, and some are ok as long as certain conditions are met. The reason for the code requirements is so that the circuitry is as bulletproof as possible for *anything* .

I have done my own work arounds, as have many here, I am not an electrician but I have a friend who is that I can call whenever. I worked beside him for a while and he taught me some basics, then I took a residential wiring and code class at the Vo Tech.

I say this because you are running into what we all do, we can get some cool old industrial equipment to play with, but it requires industrial power that our residences aren't set up for. So which way do you go from here? Hire an electrician? ka ching!! String extension cords? "Smoke on the water..." Learn enough to do a work around? Time bandit. Pass this up and buy a machine that will fit what you have? my head usually is ready to pop by this point.

You will unlikely be running this thing flat out, as others have pointed out. You could run it off of a 50 amp breaker. Perhaps a small subpanel primarily for the welder, but you can run some 110 circuits as well. That MAY be within code as well as your budget. That is where I call my friend and see if he sees any holes in my plan.

If you decide your actions on this on purpose, proactively, you will save yourself a lot of agonizing in the future.

Private Message sent to you Sketch.

Like most of us, there is so many wonderful things to do and they all need more tools. Not that I have that problem but I've heard. Pick the one you are attracted to the most and learn some of the basics. Do some projects in that medium/ technique and you begin the journey, you will find that the trail will wind around to other areas that you are then more prepared to do.
[auctioneer chatter]
Pick one, any one, doesn't matter which one, and GOOoooo!

Here is drop forging and hydraulic forging as well as open die.

Most of us here do open die.

to lend a visual to what ptree said.

Drop forging YouTube - Drop Forging with Beche KGH 8.0 B

Hydraulic forging YouTube - Forging

Open die forging YouTube - open die forging at AMP FORGING

Acetone and atf mmm that sounds like a winner.

I had a blower that I used ALL the most popular treatments on over a period of time, about 2 weeks. Then a friend recommended alcohol and dry ice. Set it in a cooler and dumped the dry ice over it then poured enough alcohol to physically contact the small internal parts. 6 hours and it cranked as soon as I grabbed the handle. WD 40 in all the crevices to displace latent water as it rewarmed.

"was galvanized with what looks to be a coating of black paint"

I am not sure of what you have, galvanising is a hot treatment that will leave a gray, or a dull silver look to the metal. black paint is paint.

It sounds as if you bought black pipe which has a phospate coating and then some times a clear coat on that. will you be forging it? Then bring to a low red and brush it then continue on. Many times I don't brush.

An electric current has a magnetic 'current' associated with it. ie electromagnets. when the electric part reverses so does the magnetic, this creates heat. In an induction forge that is a desirable characteristic, not so much in a transformer.

Since is is mild steel just heat it where you want it bent and bend using a pipe or bar of the most suitable radius. If this stretches too much on the curve, again because it is mild steel, I'd build it up with weld and grind smooth.
Now if it is springy, you may need to step up to a med carbon steel (1045, 4140) Which can be had through an industrial supplier.

For shaping hot metal under a hand hammer it is all that is necessary and costs less.

It is very useful to develop. As caleb says fast and snappy. Good on leaf making especially the stems.

Boy! you have come along well and far. Good work.

A picture may help clarify. You should be able to mount the vice in many different ways to suit the piece you are drilling.

Not to be contrary but there is a use for no gas welding. To make pipe look like tree bark. The worse you can weld the better it looks. I run it as hot as it'll go and then run beads erracticly the length of the pipe.

I alos have done the same knocking the flux off of rods (water soaked or scrap) and have just cut lengths of 3/16 HR to do the same effect. My little tombstone don't like 3/16 keeps shutting down ;)

I think that it would be possible to get the rough size. If you can get it hot enough and move fast enough.

Here is how I contemplated doing the same. I have not attempted, let me know how it goes . Drill a hole to the ID of the spline Then using some good hot work steel S-7 or H-13 create a punch that has a long lead which will slide through as a guide. When the steel gets hot it will expand so the hole becomes smaller, allow for this.

Next create the flats on the outside of the bar a little smaller than needed. The ends should be square to cut through the material and produce a slug on the back side. You will need a bolster block and some type of punch lube. Also once the splines are cut through you, will need to be able top drive it clear so relieve the back part. Allow for mushrooming the head as you drive it. I would heat treat this to be a little harder than usual to avoid deformation.

I doubt that you can do this in one heat with a hand hammer. Off center blows will warp your tools, necessitating dressing or replacing. Especially as you are trying for 3 diameters depth. It will be money the hard way.

This is the kind of job I no longer attempt as it distacts me from doing what I really want to do. So if this is an exercise for you, I'd like to hear how it goes. If this is trying to avoid a machining bill then you need to ....widen your circle of friends .

Good luck.

You ask a specific question Best but for general use.

In general an oven at 400 degree will take care of most issues for many steels. If it is to be struck maybe 500 degree draw, if for wood work maybe 300 degree. if a thin section time in the oven is fairly short depending on the steel. if fairly thick longer depending on the steel.

Rich Hale and others have given the best advice. PICK the steel you want to use and then learn it in a methodical way.

Hope that doesn't come across as snippy.