jlpservicesinc

6 hours ago, VaughnT said:

Borrowing from Mr. Coe.....

I have a door project that needed dressing up, so I made some rosettes and needed some decent bolts to hold everything in place.  I started with square head lag bolts this time and like how they turned out.  Used just a small round-nose punch for these one.  Did the punch and chisel technique on some previous tries, but thought it was too busy.

 

Those are pretty neat.. Will we get to see them installed as well? 

Coal or coke is a consumable fuel..  While yes a larger fire will consume more fuel a small fire or shallow fire while it can heat pieces of steel you never will get to achieve a fire  that uses all facets of the heat/ fire zones..  

The argument is raised now that a smaller, shallow fire can do the work of a larger fire.. I don't agree..  For most hobby smiths this might be the case as they don't mind hanging around waiting for a piece to reheat.

I want as fast a reheat time as I can get as long as it's a fully heated piece and not just on the outside..  A shallow fire on anything over 1/2" the heat cycles become to long for my liking.. Ideally even up to about 2" I like about a 2minute reheat time..  I use a shallow fire only for tempering.. 

If you lower your air input the fuel won't get used up as fast as will proper fire management.. 

anyhow, If you really want to get the best of both worlds make an adjustable firepot.. make it out of thick plate with a telescoping side.. It can be messy to change all the time but can achieve what you are talking about..   

If you really want to experiment.. You can make a coal ash and cinder lined pipe tuyere forge.   The pipe has several hole on top of the pipe.. the clinker and ash is packed in around and above the pipe in the shape of the desired firepot..  Add salt to the cinder/ash mix as a binder helper.. 

You simply put the blower on one side and a plug on the other.. No reason to fill the holes on top as the only ones exposed at the ones not covered by the ash/clinker/salt mix though if you run a strong blast you will want to plug them.. .  3" pipe, space the 3/4" holes about every 2" IIRC.. up to the size of the firepot you think you would want.. 

FYI..  a firepots depth should put the Neutral atmosphere at or about the top edge of the firepot itself burning the air enough to make a stoichiometric fire zone at that height.. 

so, to much air will make it an oxidizing fire, not enough and it becomes a carbonizing fire zone.  A shallow fire will mainly have an oxidizing fire as the fire has excessive 02 and the air above it adds to the effect.. 

One other thing..  Coke pieces inside the fire also dictate what kind of fire you are creating..  Soft coal fired forges are a skill set in their own right.. Fire management has a lot to do with the results achieved.. 

5 hours ago, Lou L said:

Torbjorn Ahman recently built one in a video on YouTube recently.  Personally, I don't think the benefits would outweigh the risks for me unless I had I constant, cheap supply of the necessary fuel that I just couldn't pass up.

We generate about 300gallons of waste oil a year..   I believe the old oil forges use a #2 fuel oil.. Wish I could have talked with one of the guys in the know.  The old forges would reach welding temperature pretty easily..  Better than propane or LP..

Once I get the shop up I'll investigate further... I have a lack of time to devote to a project like this now..

On 10/13/2016 at 0:27 PM, Derek Melton said:

Thanks. The purpose will primarily be to hold my small propane forge and to have a hammer and tong rack handy. After thinking about it, attaching a post vise may be something that I won't use quite as much as I thought I would so I may attach a light vise to it. For now I would likely not be doing a whole lot of heavy vise-related pounding during a demo, until my experience and skill deepens. I spent some time last night working on it and this is what I came up with,  so far. I still plan to weld on some side racks for hammers and tongs and will probably put a wood board top on it for now. I'm really new to welding but I'm happy with the results so far. That's 3/16 angle iron along with some scrap steel I had laying about and it seems plenty stout enough. 

 

If you are using a gas forge you should be a little careful of having the vise mounted to the flame that supports the forge.. As you bang on the vise it will transfer some of the vibration to the forge and can break and dislodge your liner..  On a coal forge it doesn't matter.. 

A old fashioned truck or car rim will work.. Just add either a wood or metal tube and plate and bolt it down..

Though you might not feel your smithing skills are up to par, as you advance you will be thankful to have your equipment properly mounted and not having to do it again.. Both saves time and money in the long run.. 

Wasting your time chasing a vise around will detract from the quality of work..  Good equipment properly mounted makes a world of difference especially in the beginning.. 

As your skill set improves, one can adapt  more easily to unfamiliar or less than ideal situations and still make a top notch product because they have a good base line skill set.. 

19 hours ago, Daswulf said:

Still happy using that fire tool design. It's a keeper. Thanks again for sharing. Easy to maneuver and control. 

 

Your welcome.. Glad it worked out for you.. 

17 hours ago, Anachronist58 said:

Pics are coming out upside up when I click on them on my mobile.

That is so funny.. Haven't figured out way..  Right side up on the computer.. Huh.. 

11 hours ago, aessinus said:

I, for one, am borrowing your idea.  There are a multitude of uses for that simple loop.  As soon as I saw your 1st picture, I face-palmed.  

The forum software should have a button labeled "Hit me with your hammer"....

Thanks.. That's cute..     If you use if for a shovel handle be sure and make your shovel the same width as the bottom of the firepot..

2 hours ago, aessinus said:

Well, now I have to go take all four vises apart..... Thank you once again for the explanation & photos.  I had no idea.

Size-wise, I have a 4", 4-1/2", 5" at home & bought a short heavy 6" for the maintenance shop at work.  For light filing of blades or similar, I actually prefer my bench mount saw vise.  Was my grandfather's vise to file his cross-cut & 2-man.  Been using it for work/pleasure for 40+ years.  I have a fair few vises. 

This one was rather a personal challenge & the plan is to make it semi-portable for the instances we need it at work.  Amazing what forklifts will "modify" by inexperienced drivers.  I can always easily thin the jaws, add width extensions etc. without the nagging notion of messing with a piece of history.  Besides, I had everything as found items, except for the spherical washer sets.  Guess I get to go in search of a tapered reamer for the hinge or make a drift.... 

I think it's a personal undertaking.. I've always wanted to build a 10" one.. do I need a 10" forged leg vise.. NO.. But it would be cool.. for some reason Large vises have a coolness factor.. Everybody who see's one always says"  Boy where did you find that one"?  how much does it weigh?  And then I'd love to have one that big..  

I have attached pictures of the support bosses of the main leg with the joints clearly seen.. You can see the taper from top to bottom.. first few are the 8" columbian, next is a generic 4.5" I use both in the trailer and the little one gets used more and is mounted right on the forge..  The next are of the (3)  extra for the school once up and running and range from 5.5" for 2 of them and 6" for the other one.. All tapered bosses..   

On the 8.5" model I have also shown where the bosses don't align and is the reason it needs a rebuild.. Not sure if you can see in the photo but it's all clamped together  to keep everything straight for when it goes into the forge to redress the joint area.. 

This information isn't well known and is the reason I shared it..  The new style leg vises don't have a tapered bolt or tapered bosses and will last probably a lifetime of use..  I just know that them old anvil and vise makers had it figured out so I try to emulate what they did..   

Traditional leg vises use several different technologies to keep the jaws in line..  

First is the bottom pivot is actually tapered.. Secondly the side plate and the bottom plate on the vise jaw are has the exact taper as the 2 side plates.. 

This is actually how the vises last so long even in smaller lighter sizes..  basically the bottom mount to the moving arm acts as a tapered seat with the bolt acting as a way to keep load on one side of the bosses while not loaded.. 

On vise size.. It comes down to what you are making.. If you look at the statistics most vises are in the 5" and down range..   Rarer are the 6" and up.. 

As you increase jaw width you also increase thickness..  

If you are making 20lbs leaf scrolls then a larger vise would offer greater support to the forged mass.. 

If you are making knives then the added size can get in the way.. 

If you are making colonial style hardware a vise that is 6" wide with narrow jaw faces will serve you the best as then you can run hinges down the side of the vise and the hinge barrel will have good support where on a 5" jaw the hinge would only be partially supported.. 

So, be careful making a vise to big unless you know what the intended purpose will be..  

I've attached a bolt made for a 8.5" jawed vise.. the jaw thickness is just over 1" perfect for hardware, and filing..  this vise still needs to have the joint rehabbed..  You can see where the bolt was missing the nut as it had been replaced at some point in history with a straight bolt which messed the joint up completely.. 

10 minutes ago, Anachronist58 said:

If it's never been seen or heard of before on your entire island, it qualifies as an "original" idea. Good work.

Thanks..  Not that I know of.. so maybe original.. :)..  I have a hard time claiming ownership of any ideas in Blacksmithing (or any hammer trades) as the trade is several thousand years old and there have been lots of smart people many times over.. Lots of ideas simply have been forgotten.. 

 Sorry about the pictures.. The pictures are right side up on my computer but when i upload them they flip.  

27 minutes ago, Anachronist58 said:

Your design, JLP? 'Cause that is mighty slick.

Robert

I think so.. I came up with it back in 87.. No sure if there are any "New" ideas or not.. 

yes, but for finger loop...  pointer finger goes into the hole.. 

Also when you need to scoop stuff out of the firepot you stick your finger through the loop and then just lift your hand.. It matches the same angle as the side of the firepot and then you can just lower your hand till the handle is back in your hand and scoop it out..

Nice shop.. Looks likes a small summer house..  

The question you pose depends on how much stuff (weight) you want to move.. Also what do you want the vise capable of doing.. Hitting it with a 6lb hammer, pulling a 1/2"X2" X 48" over to bend it and make a square edge.. 

Or just to hold for finish filing,  maybe 1/2" R, etc, etc.. so more information would help give better examples.. 

I've demo'd for  over 30 years.. Moved my fair share of equipement,

53 minutes ago, Latticino said:

Not to deliberately shift from the fascinating farrier drift here, but as regards the OP:  The only problem you are going to have with these new forge tools (which were sorely needed in the last meeting as I recall), is that they are far too nice and may end up disappearing.  Hate to ruin the aesthetics, but perhaps paint the handles some bright fluorescent color...

While I am happy to make the tools I know from long ago that anything donated to a group becomes the responsibility of the group..  If someone decides that they must have it and take it home with them.. Then they must need it and I'm OK with that..  Ideally I made them to show there are more than just bent around and good to use..  If they really have to have it rather than make their own then maybe at some point the tool will inspire them to move into making quality tools.. 

It took me years to figure out what handles work and which ones don't..  If I spend 8hr at the shop, and 75% of it is spent at the forge, waiting on metal then having good tools to me is just as important as the anvil, anvil height, hammers, forge height etc, etc..  

Anything that makes the day easier..     I actually would love to sponsor a teaching day on forge tool making and then have everybody donate their time and give the stuff made to the club.

So, if the club wants to paint the handles then it's up to them.   Besides that they are 2 nice to paint..

42 minutes ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

Sorry ladigo, it's a rare breed of insanity that combines smiths and horses these days, most horsesoers these days wouldn't know a forge if it bit them in the "assumptions"

No problem.. I get it all the time.. I love the fact there are more of us girls getting out there..  4 female farriers in my area..  Still not many female blacksmiths though.. 

I've thorougly enjoyed our conversation.. It is very rare to have a farrier who is happy about the work and about forging real items besides shoes..  I've made 50% of my farrier tools..  I'll post up another thread on farrier tools if you'd like.. 

Got one shovel done with the pattern I prefer..  Here is 1.. I will make 3 more.. But here is the start's.. 

2 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

Yes sir, I have a couple of 4x4 cut offs I use just to get them up enugh to keep my tools out of the dirt. 

Folks don't understand that it's a matter of trust, I trust them, they trust me. I'm not saying that some horses haven't been mishandled, and I either have to have a header I trust or I have to take the time to school them. But for the most part I am the best horse man my clients ever see (even if the horses are the only ones to relise it). 

 

Its' actually Mam..  But not to be picky.. 

Here's a few pic's of the ones I did first thing this morning..  First is a Midget who had terribly disfigured feet and was walking on the side of her fetlock joints.. the bottom of the hoof was completely sideways and lateral to the ground..  Both on her right side.. Front and rear..  Shes doing very well now and is walking properly on both sides though there is bone deformities on both front and rear.. She gets trimmed every 3 weeks.  

And a Mini who had foundered really bad and I was called in to do a rescue.. He has made a near 90% recovery.. this will be my 2nd fall working on him and each fall he has had a setback( I think he is eating leaves)  

this guy is a stallion and he absolutely miserable the first time I met him..  he stands perfect with no lead or halter now..  Pretty excellent.. 

In the picture you can see he's sticking his tongue out..

8 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

True, and despite them being very effecent at certain kinds of work (and if handled with respect they certainly seem to enjoy working with us) they sit idle, and often neglected. 

I am "owned" buy 3 Appaloosas. Lol

Sandy caught me working on an old timer last week. Bit arthritic, so  I'm not exactly using OSA approved positions to hold feet, lol

Nice.. Great pictures..    Yup, my kind of people..   Show um a little respect and they give back in spades..    Appi's are my favorite.. They have learned me some of the most important lessons I could have learned as a farrier.. Main lesson:  I work with them, they don't work for me.  Thats the simplest way to explain it though they certainly do work...  It's the order or expression.. 

I have a few old guys who can barely get their feet off the ground.. They put their hearts into getting their feet as high as they can, and I thank them for it.. Much love..  More than a few fall asleep when I'm working..  Approved position is where ever the horse is comfortable..   Thanks for the pictures.. 

27 minutes ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

Clips, no heal or toe calks. If she were mine and I was working brick town (brick streams and old brick wear houses made into bars, restraints and shops. I would. As that's what they were originally for. Just put the drilltec (carbide in a brass matrix). 

You would be amazed how well one will stand if you make them move stupid circles when they move. Think running suicides for your basket ball coach back in school. 

There are about 40,000 horses in Oklahoma, want some?

If I am ever in the area I'd love to stop by and see you work.. You sound like my kind of people..   

We have 3 horses.. More horses today than any other time in history in the USA.. 

33 minutes ago, BIGFO0T said:

Thanks man. I agree with not appreciating the history of it.

The questions you asked sounded like you were looking for information on it to sell it..

If you are looking for the information for yourself because you groove on it.  Then it's a whole different story..  

If this is the case..  then let it be known you want to use this and it's not for sale.   And then does anybody have suggestions on how to line it for use...

48 minutes ago, BIGFO0T said:

Thank you for your input! Just thought it might be something because of the date, ya know?

It is something..  it's a nice old forge that if it could speak would tell of a birth a life and now maybe a new chance at helping someone else fulfill their desire to heat metal and bang on it..  or it might become a plant holder which to me is a death sentence. ...

If you are looking to sell it put 100.00 on it and be willing to take less..  or find a local blacksmith organization and see if they want it..   

8 hours ago, Anachronist58 said:

All I mean is that I am enjoying the conversation, but do not want to butt in.....

It's all good.. it's a group conversation..  Besides that.. I'm slow on the uptake..

7 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

Well, I like working heavies, and she is here for a tune up before going back to work pulling carriages. So the client is getting off light at $210 plus cost on the rod ($20). 

I see a shoe as a theropudic appliance, but in the case of working horses, Oklahoma City requires they be shod. So no real choice their. I typicaly work them bare foot myself. 

Oddly enugh my back hurts much less with the heals than with out, and they only step on me one...

amazing how fast they get the idea when you grind your heal into their coronary band. 

Nice.. I have much respect for you.. Much tougher than I am..  The People are lucky to have you.. Clips also? Heel caulks? 

Here in the Northeast.. there are just about more farriers then there are horses.. Joking mind you, When I started there were maybe 125 in Mass.. You could be on the road for days and never see another shoeing rig..  Now I see other rigs all the time..  Within 20min of driving time I can hit 5 different farriers Homes.. 

6 hours ago, c.baum said:

Sounds like your anvil might be made of high chromium content steel. Which is not hardenable. Welding on a already hardened plate may destroy the hardening of the plate. Welding such steel is difficult as well. If you dare to weld a plate of C45 on it, you maybe want to harden it afterwards. Another way could be to use welding electrodes for hardfacing. I've done this on my old anvil a few year ago. Really good results but requires good welding skills. 

The hard facing welding rod is the best suggestion..

On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 9:18 AM, loneronin said:

this is my anvil on the new cherry chunk. it is stainless steel (maybe AISI 316 as it was a buoy weight) not hardened. it is shiny but not so hard as you can see in the second pic. may I weld a hardened C45 plate on it? or what can you suggest me to have a hard face to hammer on???

Stainless is very soft.. 304,308,316,409  all soft... It can be hard faced..  It also does have a tendency to work harden some..

56 minutes ago, Anachronist58 said:

Charles I beg you leave at my interlope, but what a conversation!

Robert

Ah, not quite sure what you mean.. 

But, just to be clear.. a riding heel is a western style of riding boot with a slanted tapered heel usually designed for the wearing of spurs.. 

3 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

6'2" myself and I wear riding heals to shoe in, lol. Putting on a set of size 7 shoes with borium (drill tec rod) in the AM. All you have to do is  shoe taller horses (ended the week with 5 minnies)!

God bless you.. Phew.. Your a man after my own heart.. I show up in heels and the owners want to go for drinks instead of shoeing..   

Not that you have to answer as it's a personal question but what are you charging for a New set of size 7's with borium..  Fronts or all 4?  I stay away from drafts unless the people have stocks..

I do a ton of mini's now.. a few miniature donkeys and a bunch of show horses and pleasure, both western and english. My specialty is barefoot though started about 20 years ago.. 

I ran into the guy I apprenticed with this past spring with his new apprentice after not seeing him for 15 years..  2nd thing out of his mouth was" So I heard you are a barefooter now".. YUP.. 

Next words"  You are such a loser" Why are you wasting your talents with barefoot as you are the finest shoe shaper I've ever known"..    Was the proudest moment of my life.. :)..  Thankful everyday he shared his gift with me. I learned so much those 3 years and then I learned a wheelbarrow  more the next 5.. 

By the way.. There is a reason you don't see a lot of old aged, football players, boxers. sumo wrestlers. Kickboxers in the professional capacity.. It isn't because they aren't very well skilled.. It's because you simply can't do as much since ya just get slower.. 

27 years this year.. as a full time Farrier..  38 year forging metal..  I am always amazed how old I am getting..

Used to take me 5-8 minutes to trim all 4 feet on say a Morgan or Q horse with size 1 feet or even size 2 feet..  Now it's 10-15min per horse.. 

47 minutes ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

Now JLP, how are we going to lure fresh blood into the profession?!

 

Which one?    I'm tall for a farrier at 5'11" and as a farrier the shorter the better.. 

I love what I do with horses and it very rewarding, especially when you take a lame horse and get them healthy again.. and horses are awesome and honest.  Some of the best to hang out with and happy to call all my friend..But it isn't for the faint at heart.. 

 There are just easier ways to make a living.. 

1 hour ago, Anachronist58 said:

I'm not smart enough to be a farrier thank you.

Robert

Thats funny..    Before, during and after my 3 year apprenticeship I never thought I would be a farrier either. I did it to add to the title of " General Blacksmith"  (ooh, look at me I can do it all)..  here i am 27 year later..

Smithing.. all forms of it are far easier than working with sharp tools, slippery feet and awnry horses..  Wresting with a 400+lbs anvil everyday.. Give it a try.. :)..  I love my job.. Just not the work.. 

Or is it the other way around..  I love my work, just not my job???    Guess it depends on the day..  Mind you for the most part. I work on good horses which stand very well.. Usually ground tied, but just the same its a very abusive job simply from position under the horse, the weight you have to carry, the knees being bent deeply, and the back from being all hunched over.. . 

first off. this is probably located in the wrong area.. 

but since I'm here..   It' worth is only what someone is willing to pay for it.. 

it's not in good condition.. The forge pan is cracked, the tuyere is split apart.. Basically as it sits now it is not usable.. It  would need a lot of work.. 

It was originally designed to work with clay as the forge liner.

This was more than likely an Agricultural model vs used in a full time blacksmith shop.. Though it has some size to it so maybe a combination of both though back then most were running brick forges.. 

I'm sure someone will be along who might have more info.. Buffalo forge I have quite a bit of info on so this isn't in my files..