jlpservicesinc

On 4/20/2017 at 2:17 AM, turbo7 said:

Correct, the larger the flue size to fire opening ratio the better the draft.

Up to a certain point..  Then it becomes whether or not the area to length vs temperature comes in.. The industrial smith I know uses a 14X14"X 12'size..  I use a 12X12X15'..

If you use coke you can get away with a smaller size or height as the heat stays on for longer time..  I use a hand blower with soft coal so the on off on cycles can reek havoc if not designed properly..  There is no smoke shelf in my hood/stack design.. 

Here is a link to my design in action.. 

https://youtu.be/780yI_RMNRE

4 hours ago, Abby Babby said:

Holy Hammers that is an incredible build! And you did this all on your own? Amazing. Man, I wished I knew you back then. I'd of packed up the dogs and Sandra and we'd come up to help. Sandra would probably tell me to go play nice, work hard, have fun and I'll see you when you get back. She's more of a planter garden person. When I was a Marine I knew I'd been home to long when she'd ask me "Isn't there a war or somewhere you need to go do your snipper stuff, maybe go on a Med float so you can bring home some rugs from Morocco,  something" 

That anvil stand is genius engineering,  I don't think I would have thought of that.

When I grow up I want to be as talented as you.

Regards 

Thanks Abby Babby,  That would have been great.. :)..    After working  in trailers for many years I really wanted to fix all the the problems I had experienced.. #1 was smoke, soot and cinder control (why all the awnings and vented roof with a real stack) 2, floor bounce ( my knees used to get really sore working in the other trailers) and the anvil bouncing just took 5-10X longer to make anything..3,  a solidly mounted vise, 4  a work bench.. All of these little fixes have made this trailer amazing to work in.. I still get some bounce in the anvil stand even with it solidly on the ground,(because of the length and taper) but will be remaking it this year as I have the new anvil so will need a stand that fits it..   I would love to find a rectangular thick wall tube 10X13X40" is what I need.. 11X13" would be perfect.. but a really wacky size.. 

Well, I kind of decided I want it 4more feet longer..  When I built it, because of time I really just wanted it to be done..  The amount of time to build it was astronomical.. Anyhow, the 4 ft longer will allow for a little storage, room for the foot hammer and a little more room around the vise.. 

By the way all the videos have been shot in the trailer..      I'm getting more serious about getting the new shop up put a deposit on a steel building 6 years ago.. LOL.. and finally getting everything in order..   Will be a 40X60 with 4 work stations for teaching..  

All ready have 2 demo's booked...  Hoping to get a few more.  Thanks again.. 

Wow, and I thought I used to be a collector of old iron.. I mean Old Wrought iron..       Sweeeeeettttt  Pile of goods you got there.. Good thing your not closer or else I'd be every other day making off with stuff..   

Yes, very nicely done..  How does the acrylic hold up? I'm guessing you are using acrylic... Are you hardening the complete knife including the handle? 

On 4/16/2017 at 4:32 PM, ThomasPowers said:

I'm enjoying that we can have a discussion on the topic and not a flamefest!  I think that at times we are both playing devil's advocate to each other too.  

 

I am with you totally..  Anger is to easy to come by..   

1 hour ago, yves said:

So of course I thought that the smiths of the past were perfect. And then reality came in with experience : they were not. They lived in the real world and the real world, often, only asks for what is good enough.

Thomas Powers, by the way, you are  right, this discussion is quite enjoyable.

2 things I have noticed with time..   1, I am less concerned with what is presentable to others. (my standards are very high and I have to be happy before it leaves).  2,  and item of function can be finished when it reaches it "functionality"

I have enjoyed this thread also though I think it gets a little off track once in awhile..

53 minutes ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

When I'm making something for myself, I usually settle for good enough, It'll work. When making for someone else, I try to make it to the best of my ability.

That is funny.. I find I usually take more time..   Of course this is now vs 18 years ago..  Back then it really depended on who was going to see it..

1 hour ago, yves said:

Hotermans collection

Where can I find a copy of his collection?   I'm always looking for more detailed information.. 

It is funny but I seem to gravitate more towards " Peasant"  wares vs elite/rich..       Plain everyday usable stuff.. while I find the really ornate stuff neat and even some of it beautiful I'm not overly impressed..  

I'm not disagreeing..  Just trying to clarify..  

The tools you have that are shoddily made might not have been made by a skillful smith or they may have been made as a 1 or 2 time use tool, or they may have been made by the apprentice..    Just like today there is a ton of crap work out there vs nicely forged items.. I've seen it 1000's of times in 38 years.  And yes the stuff on display can be the best pieces to define what quality was being produced as that is what people want to see..  

It's up to the individual to be a poor, good, better or the best smith they can be and the work one produces (since we no longer have a master to answer to, one must judge for themselves) and the product will show that level of skill, study of determination..  

But again,  there are millions of items produced by skilled Blacksmiths  (never mentioned whitesmiths) which are finely finished right from the forge.   Quality is Quality no matter how you slice it..   A good smith can make great items with crappy tools..   A newbie smith can make crappy products with brand new tools..    The range is incredible.. 

Again this thread comes down to  " When is enough, enough? 

In the town I grew up in.. there were 5 blacksmiths 1800-mid 1900s and one lasted into the 60's...

 Anyhow I had talked with a gentleman who was in his 80's.. He lived in town his whole life.. He knew all the smiths and while not a blacksmith himself as a kid he would go and run the blower/bellows for them..  And as an adult he brought stuff to be made or fixed..   He told me that"  For a given item you would go to the appropriate smith..  If you needed say a wagon tire fixed you would go to  Sam's.. If you needed a shaft  welded or turn bolt end forged you would go to Freds.. If you needed  a horse shod you would go to Ralphs.. If you wanted a quality hammer you would go to Roberts.. 

What he then said was " all the smiths were capable of doing a fair job on all items but these smiths did an outstanding job on each of the items mentioned.. Each one was a master in their own right, but each one had a knack for the items they did the best work on..    

I think this is true for any smith New, old, any smith alive..  Just because you can make something, does not mean it will be a quality product or you have achieved perfection.    

The example from my previous post the 1st picture was one of eye bolts forge welded but not blended.. The smith decided that they possessed the needed strength and finish and he was correct because they were attached to part of a dam with 3/4" steel cables and the cables had snapped but the eyes and forged pieces were still attached to the destroyed dam which was washed away in a flood..  

The second ones were of a support rod for the Train department.. Each weld is stamped with the guys number and each one is finished to the 9999's... 

Here are some examples of earlier work..  The first 2 pictures are of an ice chisel for ice fishing.. LOL.. Made from a leaf spring..  Does it need anymore finish than it has?   The other picture is of fresh from the forge and anvil with no file work at all just hammered to shape.. Thumb latch bodies (thumbers needed a little clean up)..   That is how I sold them and they need no more finishing.. .... 

On 1/4/2017 at 2:11 AM, Lars92 said:

Brand new 3 months ago. Maybe its not as hard as they say it is. Or my friends and I miss hit a lot i dono to be honest.  

So, how did you make out?  Any word on the anvil face as being to soft? Did you contact Dick Nietfeld? 

nice.. Congrats on the new anvil. How do you like it so far? 

The level of finish for most items made within the last 5000 years by todays standards would be consider more finished..   Reason being is if you make 1000's  of calthrops or arrow tips. thumb latches, knives, axes, spears. swords, hinges, butter knives, nails, axles, tire rims, bolts, nuts, rivets.. ETC. ETC, ETC..  

The quality and quantity gets better as you make more and more..  Think back to when you first started forging metal and the level of finish you had vs now.. 

Or better yet.. You all seem to forget it was an apprentice type trade, where you had to show a mastery of what you were making to move onto your own and it was the master smith, sword smith, armorer, vice maker, anvils maker, nail maker.. that decided when good enough was good enough.. 

I've seen all sort of medieval armor, viking tools and hardware,  and the level of finish was amazing. As were the battlefield tools.  people seem to think just because it's old or made 2000 years ago it should be crude or not well made/finished.. 

And while I would agree that certain items were not filed or finished for a given job.. (as an exaggeration  filing the outside of a wagon tire) most arrow heads or cross bow bolts tips were very well forged and some were also made from steel vs wrought iron.  and were hardened accordingly. 

Somehow this thread took on a life of it's own, vs "how do you know when good enough is good enough"

I'm starting to think you just want to post more pictures of stuff that is finished forged vs filed..  Very tricky you are.. 

These are all vintage items Hand forged and finished to the 999's yet just mundane everyday items.. 

The first picture was from a mill town and the scarf is not even finished.. ????/   These other items are amazing.. Look at the details on all of them and the level of finish even the vise has a nice little detail.. 

nice work.. Thanks for sharing..    

if you are a newbie to forge welding and Damascus.. You best bet is to start with a blade made only from one kind of material..  Get down how to do this then move into pattern welded blades..  

1 hour ago, Wroughton said:

Have you verified that the axles are steel? I have several axles that are WI. One Studebaker wagon axle is particular is very coarse WI. I'll locate the axle at the shop today and get a picture. 

 

now that was a great find..How neat is that..     Pretty amazing to think they saw the change coming and instead of fighting it they made coach bodies for cars.. 

My grand parents had a Studebaker when I was young.. What a tank.. I remember going out in a snow storm with it.. 

No I have not verified they are steel.. Just going from previous experience with this size axle..   If at some point I decide to use them for tools I will go through the process of determining material..  From the rust pattern it shows it to be carbon steels but then again I did not verify.. 

that really is one very awesome axle to find.. ..  did /was this carriage in a fire? Looks like charcoal wood behind it.. Or the Japanese black finally let go.. 

8 hours ago, Abby Babby said:

Intresting,  are you looking for something in particular?  I'll ask around if anyone needs some old equipment picked up.

Not really..  I mean it's always nice to stumble into a wrought iron wagon wheel hoop sitting the middle of the woods somewhere.. But its more the treasure hunt than anything else.. I used to have literally a ton of the stuff but gave it away when I moved out of the old shop.. 

Now it's more a collection process to rebuild the stash some.. The wagon parts are tough because I won't repurpose any of the seat backs or irons for the buggy proper.. So I will basically clean them up and hang them from the wall..   

The axles were made from medium or high carbon and are excellent for tools.. the springs same deal., but hate to really do anything with the old pieces.. 

I certainly wouldn't refuse a few heavy wrought iron axles or heavy hauler tire hoops.. 

21 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Touchmark: Deep etch and patinate the bottom so it looks like it was hot stamped

I have an electrical etcher on the DoAll bandsaw..  ?????    

4 hours ago, Abby Babby said:

These parts could have come from and early automobile or something like a Brougham. Cargo, Farm Wagons and the lot do not normally have axle springs. Do you have any pictures of the Wheels? I can tell a lot more with the wheels.

Regards

No, the tires were just small hoops from a carriage vs heavy wagon or hauler...   It looks like they were light enough that it may have even been a sulky..  I was hoping to find some tires from a heavy wagon or hauler..   

It wasn't a motorized coach..  The mounts for the hames (spelling) tongue were there.. 

That's the one I want..     It seems like the European vises and anvils are always bigger than stuff in the USA..   Over there the Quantity of anvils over 300lbs is amazing where here it's harder to find then over 300.. 

Here an 8" vise is hard to find..   Where over there it seems to be more common place..   Makes me think they were doing a lot of heavy blacksmithing vs here..  

Leave them as be..   With enough use they will become smooth..   They were all serrated when new.. some have a waffle pattern, some checkering and some with serrations..  The smoothness or lack of smoothness just shows the use/life of the vise.. 

Nice vise.. I have an older model of the 8" Columbian..   They make a really nice product..  Congrats..    do you have it mounted up yet? 

Are you going to clean it up with a new coat of paint?  

It comes down to how much you want it and how good of shape it's in..  I paid 600.00 for a nicely used  8" columbian...    and the same for an 8.5" un named vise.. 

I also have 4 others in the 6" range that I paid between 50.00 and 75.00 for..   

If everything is in good shape, the screw is good, nothing is missing " it becomes what is the value to you"..   Are they easy to find and plentiful in your area?  Can you talk the guy down some? 

it looks like a Columbian and they make a very good vise..  If it's a 6" or larger I'd buy it if the screw was in good shape.. 

A vise like that will last several generations so really the decision becomes what is the value to you.. 

8 hours ago, SLAG said:

Thanks T. P.,

I know bocote well, & have used it often.

SLAG.

Here is a good site for information on the wood if anyone is interested. http://www.wood-database.com/bocote/

Great info..   My friend does composite bowl turnings and is where I got the wood from..  He had a whole bunch of different types.. There was a really nice cherry piece with a cloud type pattern, some Black walnut, rose wood, yellow wood.. But the Bocote struck me as the right amount of contrast.. 

4 minutes ago, buckbrown said:

Put your touchmark on it and it will be a matched set!

LOL..  I don't have a touch mark for cold work.     They all need to be applied to hot metal...  

Only thing I can come up with is to burn it into the handle????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

6 hours ago, Daswulf said:

Awesome work JLP. They are quite well done but I'm thinking the knife lacks anything to tie it in with the fork and spoon tho. I Have seen sets that are like that but were I to make a "set" I think having a tie in feature would be nice.  Please don't take that wrong. The work is excellent. I doubt I could get two pieces as similar as you got the design of the fork and spoon, and it's all proportionate. Just an observation.

Thanks.  The knife blade itself is the colonial feature and correct design for the same time frame the spoon and fork portray..  

I do get it and now thinking about it, it would have been neat to have the same handle feature with the spine in the middle of both sides with the rat tail handle..    I was in a period correctness thing at the time.. (Designs I like in colonial blades that would be fitting was my thought process and this design came to me bright and clear not only that it's a rarer design of blade)..

 Not a fan of metal handles on knives, and other than the wood, the design is period correct.. I was going to make the handle more coffin shaped but Who ever buys it I want to use it and the coffin handle unless well rounded isn't that comfortable..   

I do see your point though.. Nice thing about being a blacksmith.. I can just make another one..   

You stuck a seed in my brain now..    I may have to change the title to " The knife that might have been part of a set"..      LOL..   Argh...   i'm completely torn now..    Where were you when I was in the designing phase??? 

9 hours ago, littleblacksmith said:

A very nice set! what happened to using the moose bone for the handle?

                                                                                                                                    Littleblacksmith

Since the moose bone was a complete bone and not disinfected or aged and when I cut off a piece there was still marrow inside (it was supposed to have died last fall) I decided I didn't want to go through the hassle..  Not only that while some people would think it's neat others would be always worried the moose was shot for the bone..  And lastly just to much white or silver.. .  I wanted to mute or break up all the bright colors and the only other way I was going to achieve that was with an inlay or a change in wood material.     Sorry if the moose bone was a key feature of interest for you and it didn't get used.. 

8 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

try bocote

That's it..    Thanks.. 

Got the knife finished that goes with the Fork and spoon set today and the "How to' video  is in the editing stage..  All processes were done by hand except for the pin holes and this was done with a hand gear drill..  First knife made in 20 years, few mistakes but overall "still a work in progress".... Roughly 8hrs to complete.. I used epoxy vs horse glue..    The wood was picked because of the contrast (Bokuuta) I believe it's called.. The drawknife would only pull fine shavings as it is very hard wood..  Brass pins.. 

On 4/5/2017 at 3:07 AM, gote said:

Your videos are really good - probably the best. One feature I appreciate a lot is your texts. I hate trying to figure out what a guy is mumbling into camera most of the time. Some of the video makers seem to be more interested in showing their unshaven faces than showing the smithing action. Thank you very much for an excellent work.

Thanks for the high praise.. It really helps to get feedback.. I hope to continue on this path and continue to offer content which is helpful..  Again, thanks for the feedback.. My appreciated.. 

On 4/5/2017 at 4:56 AM, Alan Evans said:

The quality of the 2D video looks excellent. The 3D one on my Mac laptop plays two side by side images in Safari but in Chrome puts them both together with the colour halo. The 2D option of the 3D version in Chrome does not appear as sharp and clear as the 2D version.

One thing I did with the three prong toast forks I used to make, was to pre-forge the taper of the tines before splitting. Do the bulk of it in one piece and then all that was needed was to just regularise and chamfer the tines afterwards. I found it was easier and quicker to forge in one piece, and with fewer heats once split, there was less risk of burning the tips...though I found you could still burn them if you tried hard enough!

Different starting and finishing points of course. I was forging from Ø16mm (Ø5/8") and leaving a 3D knop at the root of the tines. The tines of course came out of a much shorter section of parent bar, so needed much more drawing out.

Have you ever tried that?

Alan

p.s. Added this to the you tube feed back, as requested.

Thanks for the follow up here and on the video..  The straight 2D is slightly cleaner..   Unless you have a true 3D TV then it's pretty amazing to watch the 3D action..  One factor which I have noticed is I like to watch the 2D version not the Youtube 3D converted to 2D as you mentioned as it does take out some of the details..   The side by side format is for 3D tvs and VR gear and offers the best quality..  

3 hours ago, WNC Goater said:

First post here just to say I think the video was very informative, helpful and well done. I agree the picture in a picture is very helpful as is the text.  When I get a little further along with forging this will be one of my first projects.  Thanks. (By the way, I appreciate the constant tweaking to get it "just right" to your eye. I'm a bit of a perfectionist myself!)

There are a few of the videos all " How To's"    some are a little bit more time consuming.. There is one on S hooks, and nail making but you need a Nail header for the nails.. There is a video on that also but it's pretty labor intensive just starting out..   Mind you if you watch the video a time or 2 all the information is there on getting to a working product. 

Thanks..