John Larson

If you look at today's picture gallery there are multiple views of a Chambersburg 100. One shot clearly shows its sword and linkage to the motion valve. It is a good looking machine complete with pin striping.

I am not sure what you have done. I think you are allowing the tie rod between the sword's output lever and the motion valve input lever to be adjustable. This is the by-pass? What does this do for you?

Contact Roger Lund in Sweden via Facebook. He has extensive experience with Beche hammers and has one of the best forging shops in the world. Tell him John Larson USA iron Kiss Hammers gave you his name. A super nice guy.

Iron Woody, the hammers are speed controllable, and as I slow them down the inherent stroke length gets longer. The hammers can "full stroke" and that correspondingly uses more air. I didn't show that in the video, but mentioned it. Iron Kiss hammers are tuneable to meet the needs of any particular smith. Thanks again, Phil.

I have posted a couple videos of my 75 and 150 Iron Kiss hammers operating in treadle hammer mode on youtube at jcl10000. This is my response to my quest for an air hammer to have a mode of behaviour like a steam hammer. I'm not sure how to give you "one click access" to them.

Thank you, Phil.

Thanks Phil. I looked at the cross sectional view again and I am still wondering how the bottom exhaust is routed so that it can be throttled for reciprocation. Maybe only the top is throttled, and the bottom just dumps into the crankcase. Some Turkish hammers only throttle the top circuit. Nazel-Beche hammers throttle top and bottom. In any case I must agree with you about castings as works of art. The cross sectional views of the pistons show weight control measures were elaborate. On the Turkish hammers the bottom circuit doesn't dump/exhaust. The air keeps moving back and forth, and the replenishment occurs at the pump piston's air access location.

John N that is above and beyond! So I can't let the offer go unheeded. :-) As I look at the cross sectional view that you provided and the photograph provided by John Newman, there are to my eye some differences. In the diagram there seem to be shown the central rod, the outer casing, and the parts that the photograph shows. In the diagram at the top of the rod there appears to be a valve that the vertical movement of the rod opens/closes (under the dome on top). In reciprocation mode where do the exhaust flows go? John Larson

John n, I totally understand the need for avoiding threats to your intellectual property. I very much appreciate your engagement in this and related threads. Hope you continue. I will study the schematic that you have supplied. Thank you,

Right now I believe the clear space Massey design has features that make it distinct from, say, Nazel-Beche. These distinctions would seem to induce people to consider the clear space machine the epitome of self-contained hammers./ The very long tup and stroke length capability undoubtedly led to its "clear space" moniker. Its noted durability has to relate to Massey precision of manufacture of that long tup and the bore and piston fit. Older Nazels seem to always have a problem with bore wear and piston and seal fit./ The spool valve is a superior way to create valves from my research. Hydraulic systems uniformly use spool valves. Old steam hammers used spool valves. It is possible to achieve precise metering with spool valves and that is harder to do with "quarter-turn" valves./ The air reservoir used in a clear space Massey is totally unique amongst self-contained hammer designs so far as I know at present. In use with the single blow feature, it is possible to segregate the tup from pulsations of the pump, and therefore the machine is operating as a utility hammer/steam hammer. Here the spool valve is without doubt controlling both in-flow and out-flow, hence the very precise tup positioning and rate of movement. Because of passageway size and piston size and air pressure, there are obvious synchronization time lags between driver movements of the lever and the tup movements./ Finally, for now anyway, the clear space machines were provided in a wider assortment of sizes than Nazel in the USA. Conceivably European Beche and other brand machines were made in a larger variety of sizes.

So many questions. It would be of keen interest to me to learn a great deal more about Massey clearspace hammers. The graphics on masseyforging.com are too illegible to ascertain air circuitry. The machines in action shown by Phil and john n have me very interested. So when you remarked that they pump only on one side of the pump piston, well, that really caught me by surprise.

Thanks, Phil.

Hey Phil, appreciate your comments on hammers. Be sure to post some pictures of your new purchase.

More good info. I really like the looks of that modern day steam hammer with the two posts and horizontal beams to hold the guides and cylinder. Could use that design right now where fabrication has to be used instead of devoted wishbone castings like days of old. Structurally, the two post and wishbone designs fight the inherent rocking forces of a C-frame design. Every time the hammer head is lifted the C-frame wants to tilt forward, and then tilt backward as the hammer head comes down. The two posts symmetrically share the loads.

On steam hammers and self-contained hammers, the amount of pressure on top of the piston at near the top of the up-stroke is sometimes not very high and is below atmospheric in a Beche. So top cushions have to be designed with this in mind. The yellow cap on the steam hammer that you have shown with two hoses undoubtedly holds a piston that is pushed perhaps by a rod that the regular ram piston pushes near the top of the stroke. The little top hose feeds that cushion piston needed pressure (perhaps from the bottom of the regular ram piston).

Phil, this thread is not exclusive to steam hammers at this point, but rather an educational thread where truly experienced hammer users are educating those of us like me who need the lessons. Your response has been in video and written form and has shown me some of the aspects of "best hammers",. and John Nicholson's postings have been invaluable as well. So don't stop giving lessons, please. I'm really appreciative.

John, I would deeply appreciate that info. Thanks for offering it.

Thanks, Forgemaster. It is an understatement to say I have learned an enormous amount of information from this thread. The essay by Mr. Massey in about 1903 to the Manchester Engineering Society (see pages up in this thread) indicates his company's experience with steam hammers prior to their budding work on self-contained hammers. The clearspace models appear to be the best of both worlds! Here in the USA the Nazel (Beche) machines had a clamping mode but no air reservoir. I am unaware of any Masseys here.

Wow! I have never seen a self-contained function like that with the levers. How is this done? I am amazed. Thanks a bazzilion. John Larson

More, more, more!

John N, your picture tour of your facility, posted quite a while ago, would be very nice to see again. I remember being impressed with the cleanliness and array of big machines. The clearspace machines seem to be unique to the self-contained hammer world and I'd like to see more of them.

Thanks. The unexpected consequences of moving things off-shore (according to the upset/squabbling going on several weeks ago before the long shut down).

Thanks, guys. When stuff happens and the host makes no explanatory comment, either he is unaware or maybe it was on purpose. Seems f'n bizarre.

I posted several weeks ago asking people about best hammer features. That post is missing. One person did provide some feedback and that post is missing. What gives?