bigfootnampa

So now you know that the secret is to heat the whole hammer to the temp that you last did on the faces only. Then you could draw the temper more on the eye. Remember though that file skating is TOO hard for hammer faces... as finished anyway. Also I think you would find a mid-carbon steel or a mid carbon alloy steel much more suitable for hammers. Hammers are NOT knives and very hard surfaces are NOT desirable... the heat treatment of the mid-carbon steels and alloys is less critical than that of the higher carbon steels (especially as regards hammer sized hunks of steel). Lastly pay attention to your quenching technique... a heavy hunk of metal such as a hammer head needs to be agitated quite energetically as it is quenched, in order to keep cool oil flowing over the faces of the hammer.

For my own purposes I like axle type steels (4140, 4130) or low carbon steels (1035, 1040, 1050) for making striking tooling or hammers. Spring steels might be made to work but would only be chosen if better choices were unavailable (and in such case I would be careful to temper them back aggressively... or leave them unhardened). As an example... spring steels like 5160 would be tempered at 750 to 900 degrees Fahrenheit (for use as springs) and IMO would still be overly hard for hammer purposes. Speaking color-wise I like a blue temper tending toward purple at the eye for hammers... and I believe that mine are harder than most production hammers (this for alloy steels and mid-carbons... spring steels would be different).

Brian;

They do look interesting. I can't make out the jaw shapes completely. It looks as though the top jaw is standard v-grip and the bottom jaw is a solid diamond shape that has also been aligned on a slight taper closing faster toward the tip. From the apparent dimensions I seem to think that you made them from some sort of tool or alloy steel?

This is based on information in this thread
http://www.iforgeiro...-hot-cut-hardy/
NakedAnvil took an axle, squared and upset a shank on, then formed a wedge for a hot cut in (according to him) about 30 minutes. I know he has induction heating, which is VERY fast and that he knows a whole lot more than me.

I started off with a piece of 1 1/2 4140 in my propane forge, I formed the square shank then cooled the top in water (so I don't upset it in too far) and upset the shoulder on the bottom using a bolster plate wired to my anvil (it lines up with the hardy rather well)

I actually upset 2 so I could make a turning fork out of one, and a hot cut out of the other. Took me a little over an hour, and I made a hot chisel as well from some coil spring. (I heat treated that today)

I MELTED a part of a punch I was making as well, so I know I get enough heat out of the forge The scale was molted every time I removed the part, so I think I was hot enough.

Today I tried to draw out the top of the hardy into a wedge shape. I am using a 3# diagonal peen hammer. I found that half face blows were the only way I could move metal on this thick stuff. My arm feels like jelly, largely because I do not do this enough.

I formed a wonderful fish mouth or bird beak, depending on who you read last. I could not get the metal to move differently, so I hot cut (chiseled) one side of the fish mouth away. I do not know if this is right or wrong, but I did it. I know a fish mouth is formed by not hitting hard enough to move the metal in the center of the bar.

I gave it up for the day when while drawing down the other half of the fish mouth a crack formed, probably from a cold shut formed while chiseling. I heated the part to normalize, and put it aside to cool and picked up since I was also nearly out of time.

Here are some pictures of the process, and where I stopped. I welcome suggestions on what to do. I thought about grinding out the shut using my angle grinder and a cup disk (I hope I called that right)

The most fun so far was when I upset the shoulders with round house strikes and an 8# sledge.

Phil

Nope,never a swabbie.Army Infantry and Air Cavalry.
The reason for the Navy term is that a prior job was as a shipfitter building Navy destroyers.
Knew how to find the "Goat locker" and how to deal with the "Chief of the boat",the guy who REALLY called the shots.
I`ve also worked and trained with Navy and USMC personel(they dislike being called "troops").

Big fish,small pond huh?
In the unions I used to run across "journeymen" who had worked one place almost all their adult lives.Got their training there and knew only what the hands at those locations had taught them.IMO they were "journeymen" only because they had stayed on long enough at that job and were pulling "journeyman" wage.Some of them didn`t have near the skill set of a third year apprentice and would have had a hard time pulling above helper rate if they went somewhere else and had to prove their skills.
Good for them if they can wrangle the money.There is also something to be said for committing a large chunk of your life to staying in one place or job.
Doesn`t make someone a bad person.Lucky maybe,but not bad.Doesn`t make them a "journeyman" either.

As to the "Master" debaters.For that sort of thing to fly by me I need proof.
I see Danger,David,Rory,Grant,Larry,Young Dylan,etc turning out work(thru pics with them in the pics)and speaking of that work in an intelligent and informed way so I know it`s their work.They are all xxxx good at what they do and it would be for someone way above my pay grade to hang the appropriate title on them.
However,if you show up near where me and my friends are working and declare yourself a "master" anything that`s an open invitation to be tested,even if you have a sheepskin saying it`s so.In the working world here in New England it`s NOT show and tell,it`s roll up the sleeves,get to it and we`ll see when the day`s done.

The only widely agreed upon "master" we have up here is someone you can go to to get the proper thing to lure marine animals either into a trap or onto a hook.She has made it her life`s work to know what the fishermen need and how it needs to be stored,prepared and delivered on time in order for them to get the job done.Her business,trucks and cards say"The Bait Lady".She openly agrees that she is a "master" at what she does and responds warmly to the greetings from the docks touting her title and heralding her arrival.

For that type steel oil quenching is usually most effective. It is not enough just to dip your steel when you quench... you should quickly transition to a figure eight stirring motion and continue that until flames die out. Water quench will harden the steel but is far more likely to produce cracks and/or bends that degrade the usefulness of the blade or tool. In any case hard enough is hard enough... you will want to temper back the hardness anyway... so the least violent quench that will harden the steel enough is best.

I like the one in the first picture best though the one on the far right of the last pic is very nearly as nice. I can't tell you why... just instinctive.

I like those very much! You have some nice textures (I LOVE texture) and designs there. Some pretty high grade work IMO! Especially for a group effort (where it is often difficult to concentrate as well as a craftsman working alone might).

I really can't add much to what's been posted here as far as helping with filing accuracy but I would like to interject with a little discussion here about the desirability (or UNdesirability) of these crisp grind lines. On my own knives I find that the existence of such crisp details tends to preclude the optimal angles/thicknesses for optimal cutting work. Thus (as a very practical sort of maker) I find that I consider such details to be rather impractical frills that detract from optimized performance. For knives that are intended to be used often, such details also (IMO)complicate and/or inhibit re-sharpening processes significantly. I realize that this won't help you to file crisper lines but perhaps it COULD help you to produce even better (from a practical user POV) knives that are not dependent on such skills.

That's a really nice knife... very sculptural! I love the spring detail! I am unfamiliar with salt bluing but the look you have there is quite nice. I too love the "craftsman" sort of knife design that shows off the handmade and artistic abilities of the maker. Dave Budd is another for you to refer to for inspiration. I'll have to look up these other guys as I don't know any of them!

I like that hammer. It would make a nice key fob or pendant. It seems a simple shape at first glance but as I try to imagine the steps in forging it I discover that it might be a fairly difficult shape to create. You did a very nice job with the twining stem of the handle! I'd like to know how you created the steep variance in mass between the handle and the hammer head.?.? Did you perhaps start with a bolt or some such thing?

"I've gotta say I often feel like I could whip a bear in a slap fight."

UUUummm Frosty DON"T trust your feelings right now!!! You are still a little OFF! You probably thought you were a pretty good match for a birch tree too... dinya??

Awful nice knives Graham!!! I hope you don't post stuff like this too often because I might like ta put up a pic or two of my own once in a while and I can't show em next ta these without looking like a real hick bladesmith!

I am sure they have great beer in Austria... though what impressed me most when I was there was the marvelous apricot brandy. I have been searching for some as good in the 11 years since with no success at all! Nice dragon!

Very nice table. If you have a shop full of old tools and some you are not sure what they are and you must have more----is that a tool junkie? I just thought it was second nature???????

I've no idea what steel they might be but likely one that will make blades with decent cutting qualities. You might find them a tad on the smallish side for filet knives but they should make some nice carving knives and you might get some smallish filet knives from them. They should make decent hook knives or hoof knives.

Wow! What a nice start for you Joseph! Smiths all over the world will envy your beginning! As you can begin to see the smithing community is something very special! I am sure that many here will be looking forward to reading of your adventures as a beginning smith. I sure will!

Sounds very fair to me!

If you are going to manufacture knives and sell them to people who want a consistent product you might want to buy your steel new. You could also get it on the secondary market for a bit less but still have a known steel to work with. Otherwise you would be doing a very traditional thing (for blacksmiths) by recycling scrap steels. Within reach of me as I write this are blades made from at least three different scrap steels and the poorest of them would easily rank in the top 5 percent if compared with knives that I have bought made by others (I tended to buy pretty good quality but not custom level blades back before I made all my own).

I think you should hang it from a single hook. You could put a little bow in the long links so that they form a nice arch shape when hanging.

A little trick that I have been using some lately is to make a sort of spiked drive J hook with the spike tilted down a bit and then when it is driven in I give a couple of squirts of superglue at the top of the spike... the glue runs down into the drywall or plaster and hardens it up so that it holds the hook. Be sure to have a paper towel handy to wipe up anything that might drip down the wall and keep that stuff off your fingers! Not quite as good as catching a stud but okay for light to medium duty hanging.

Seems like you moved pretty fast on that to me! Nice job!

We have about fifteen or so here at Walnut Valley Farm. We don't manage our flock very well and so only get about 4 to 5 eggs per day. That is more than we use though. We have way too many roosters (4 or 5). What I wish we had is a good tractor type coop that we could move about the yards (have plans to make one of those). We have had free ranging flocks and that is real nice but dogs, raccoons, foxes and hawks take a toll. Personally I really like the birds (we have a couple of free ranging guineas too), I feel them as a friendly and interesting presence here. One determined hen sat on eggs through this winter (record breaking cold here in MO) I kind of felt badly that I let her expend such an effort in such a futile cause... but a couple of days ago I heard a strange cheeping sound in there and discovered that she had managed to hatch ONE. She is so SO PROUD! They have a little chiconspiracy going out there. They all warn the baby when they see me approaching and the mama gets herself set with the chick hiding beneath her skirts. I have tried to catch the little critter to make sure that he gets food and water but when he is panicked he runs like Walter Payton in a broken field!! I would have to want him badly to get him. I guess he cannot be starving or dehydrated and still run like that!

I have recently discovered diatomaceous earth as an additive to their food and highly recommend it. About a half cup per bag of feed kills most of the moths and worms that otherwise infest it and helps to control intestinal parasites when they ingest it too. It does NOT harm the eggs (unlike the commercial wormers... you should not eat the eggs for weeks after using them). Be sure to get FOOD GRADE diatomaceous earth as there are pool additives and such that would NOT be appropriate for your flock. This is also a good treatment for wild bird seed if you have feeders... those darn moths get into everything if you let them prosper! I have a lot of neat pics of the chickens but will need more time to get them organized and uploaded. I'll put up a few later. I gotta clean house today and the KU vs Mizzou game this afternoon will occupy me for a while so don't look for them right away.

Clay

Grant is likely right that it was too cold but it also sounds like wrought iron stock (you have to forge it MUCH hotter). I have found it prone to the type of splitting you describe even when I try to keep it very hot as I work it. Generally I will allow the forms to be blockier and more rusticated when I am working with wrought iron. At least for me, it seems not to forge out into as finely pointed tapers and edges without crumbling. I do kind of like the rustic shapes that it seems to prefer being. I think the problem may be that as my shapes get thinner or flatter it becomes pretty difficult to keep the heat at yellow temps.

One other possibility is that you worked the end down at too gradual an angle and maybe with too light blows creating cold shuts in the center which crumbled apart when you tried to forge them to a point.

made this spearhead alittle less than a year ago. up until then i never rolled a socket or forged a double bevel before. it is made from what used to be 3/8 x 1-1/4 inch, but it was pretty rusty so it was slightly less. the bar was off of an old porch railing so it is mild steel. after the blade was rough forged, and the junction between blade and socket done(it is still full thickness there), i closed the last 3/8 inch gap in the socket cold, and cold hammered the blade. actually that made it quite rigid and i can't bend it in my vice bare handed. the ridge is still a little more than 1/4 inch thick. since these pics, ive filed the blade to a point, filed the bevels smooth, and fixed the gap at the opening of the socket. can start on the herringbone inlay lines now, if i ever get out to my shop again...so much i need to get done. -sigh-

I'm curious if anyone has ever made like a hardy vice. I've seen people put hardies in post vices but I gather that there's not very much mass in a post vice, especially when compared to a the mass that's normally in an anvil. So i'm curious if anyone ever welded up a very heavy hardy tool holder that doesn't just hold the hardy tool but clamps it in either one or two axis as to hold any hardy of any common size. If you've never seen anything like this, anyone have an ideas for a good way to go about this?

I've even thought about maybe making my own post vice that is just a stand alone vice made out of very solid steel and where the walls themselves clamp together instead of just a toothed area. Thoughts?

This is really a great opportunity to teach your daughter how to handle failure... which is of course; to persevere until you reach success! I hope that you won't mind if I suggest that my own experience shows smaller hammers to be amazingly effective. I have been moving lighter and lighter for my own work. A favorite of mine is a rescued hammer head that is similar to a 12 oz. tinner's riveting hammer but slightly longer. So it's a 1" square bar about 5" long tapered to a cross peen at one end. I'd guess it's about a 16 oz. hammer. I like the reach for doing delicate work and use the long column of weight to move metal with surprising ease. It seems to me that such a hammer would be quite nice for a young smith to use. The size is quite manageable for forging out too. I use one of the afore mentioned tinner's hammers quite a bit also. A smaller hammer like this might be a good starting point and be easier to create. I use mine a lot when forging nails and find it quicker than my bigger hammers overall (but I like a bigger one for the long tapers on longer nails).