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I Forge Iron


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  1. You can get good heat from non Babbington designs that are pretty intolerant of dirty Fuel. This is one of mine working shown here: Posted video removed due to language violations I also did a design which Uses compressed air but is not in fact a babbington design. It simply uses a plumbing T piece to mis the air and fuel and is sprayed through a bit of copper pipe that was crushed to form a nozzle. You waouldn't want to run dirty oil in it but clean would be anything that was run through a bit of rag and had the chunks taken out of it. Video removed because posted refused to foillow Tos about language Be aware that you don't actually need to atomise the oil at all. All that is needed is heat to change the oil from a liquid to a vapor. Atomising makes this happen a little easier but for the outputs you'd be needing there is plenty of heat available. I am working on a design with a power steering pump and a fuel injector and also using an ABS Pump from a car. For the injector I'll either have it held open electricaly or pull one apart and remove the metering component so it's constantly open. By using Petrol type injectors at PS pump pressures, I think the oil will spray pretty well. For the ABS Pump, these will do Very high pressure like a PS pump and higher but have small flow. I have yet to measure the flow but it's the metering I want for controlling the fuel for small burners. The ability to have either 1 or 4 outputs would also add some controlability and turndown ration on the things. I'm really looking at these things for fun and entertainment because I don't think having all the extra equipment and bulk could be in any way superiour to the Blown air designs I have now. You can power them with a 12V car blower, a hairdryer or a Jumping castle blower and get heat outputs from 5Kw hr to 500KW depending on what you want. Mine run 300+ easily and I am hooping to get to one later today that I think should be capeable of 500KW witthout any trouble. Running a fan or blower in my book is much better than pumps and compressors but everyone has their prefrance. Good luck with it.
  2. You speak of safety and 6 YO's using forges in the same paragraph??? If the kid grabs something red hot, pounds his hand or trips and falls into the fire, what's the " Nearby" parent going to do? Call the ambulance? When you denounce an adult not wearing PPE but advocate a 6 yo using a forge, it's apparent our ideas of safety, responsibility and duty of care vary substantially. How old will this kid have to be before he is OK to use a chainsaw or is it just a matter of him being knowledgeable enough and knowing the thing can cut an appendage off with one slip?? On the upside, he may save the taxpayers a fortune by driving himself and all the other kids to school on the bus by the time he's 10 if he is careful, safe and knowledgeable enough...... And being able to see over the dash and reach the pedals would no doubt be an advantage as well. I thought I gave my kids some responsibility early in life but I wouldn't care if they were wearing a bomb proof suit or all the PPE the most over the top safety zealot was satisfied with, all the knowledge and care in the world wouldn't save a 6 yo from life long injuries that can happen to anyone in a split second. If I hurt myself, it's no ones fault but mine. I wonder what the legal ramifications would be if a 6 yo had an accident whilst using a forge. People need to learn that watching their kids have an accident doesn't make it any less painful for the kid If they think that making sure they're supposedly doing the right thing at all times while they watch from "nearby" will prevent an accident, they clearly haven't been around machinery enough. Sorry, but to me that's just completely irresponsible and as someone that says they promote saftey, It's beyond my understanding and I'll bet pretty much any childrens or welfare organisation's how you can condone it.
  3. I'm only responsible for my kids, no one elses. Frankly the notion of anything different I find totally absurd. Have a look around the internet at all the things dumb kids could learn from.... Info on how to make bombs, rocket propellant, makeshift guns, makeshift ammo, extreme sports, dangerous and irresponsible driving, Alcohol abuse, how to grow drugs and so it goes. And the mainstream advertising that is targeted towards kids and the ideas they could get from that dosen't bear mentioning. Eliminate all these other threats about 100,000 lines further up the list and we'll debate what ideas these "dumb kids" might get from my vids. I think by then though there won't even be a vid left of Knitting or gardening in case a kid gets a stupid idea and this site will be long gone as well. I don't believe one can teach personal responsibility by removing it from those who need to learn it the most.
  4. I said I know, I'd never do that, it's illeagal isn't it? If you read what I said and climb down of your high horse you'll see that I said I would never do anything Illegal. What I proposed, as verified by the council ranger was totaly and completely legal otherwise I would have been fined. I'm sorry, I would have never taken this for a family forum. I guess where I'm from you just don't see the family and the kiddies huddled round the computer after dinner reading up on knife making, forging and casting. I would have that would have been dangerous for the kiddies but there you go, wrong again. :rolleyes: You need to calm down, and take another look at the IFI terms of service before posting again. Language, including profanity and insults are not allowed.
  5. We have had the no backyard burning thing here for more than a decade all through the metro area. I discovered a loophole though. Outdoor cooking is different. All I have to do when I want to burn something is get out my little portable BBQ plate and frame and I have an old cast iron cooking pot I picked up for good measure. A whiney Neighbour once complained when I was burning some leaves even though there was no wind and the smoke was going straight up and she wouldn't have caught a wiff. She called the council who sent the ranger round and wanted to see what was going on. I showed him I was just getting the fire ready by creating some coals before I put the meat on and had a Damper in the pot. At first he looked at me like an idiot and told me he wouldn't eat anything cooked over that and I didn't have the first clue how to cook a Damper ( Australian Bushman's Bread). I looked and said oh really? You mean you cook it like .. and explained to him the way to do it and then added in a sarcastic tone, " I thought I'd do it this way and get rid of all the leaves and sticks from the council trees out the front at the same time" . The guy looked then the penny dropped and he just said Oh, I get it. He said good job you are cooking on that because if you were just burning off I'd have to fine you. I said I know, I'd never do that, it's illeagal isn't it? He laughed and smiled and left. You could check up if you have a similar loophole in your area. Sometimes thinking outside the box gets you a long way! Gives me an idea though, I'll have to make a veg oil fired BBQ!
  6. . That all seems a bit harsh. The guy has no more control over the laws where he lives than you do. You posing questions and attitudes that are not for the individual to decide but the law makers in his area. Not only that, but the problem is not wether he's prepared to obey these laws or not, it's the fact other people are involved. As business owners, they have their livelihoods on the line. They would be idiots to put that at risk for no gain by giving the guy oil knowing they are not allowed to. You have no idea of the level of regulation that goes on either or how hard it is policed. And to be totaly frank, from what I have seen Americans are the most conformist of all. I constantly get people from the US telling me, " Oh no, couldn't have a burner like that on my farm. Insurance wouldn't cover it and I'm not allowed to store oil and if a neighbour saw some smoke and...." From what I have read, there are pretty much the same restrictions in the US. I share your views in that I pretty much do what I want where I am regardless of wether it's allowed or not but you can't put XXXX on others for wanting to avoid potential problems. I can flout a lot of things and get away with it with the use of a bit of smarts and cunning because the only way I'll get done is if someone actually complains. And given the slack nature of the authourities of this sort of thing in my area, it amy well take more than one complaint. I make sure that dosen't happen so I'm OK. In other places though it could well be different and the ingrained mentality may well be that people are lead to believe the seriousness is a lot greater and the risk factor of getting caught is very high. Neither of us know what the situation is much outside our own areas we are familiar with so not really anyone else decision to make other than the individuals it pertains to. Don't get me started on the green, save the planet band wagon. I call that Y2K all over with 10 years R&D to make it the biggest scam the world has ever seen. You are dead right, everything about it is profit driven. Here in OZ we are forced to use stupid CF lightbulbs to save Co2 and all that crap but there are a million things that the gubbermint and big business do that is pure and utter waste that generates so much c02 and emissions etc that the whole country of private citizens could't hope to offset in their lifetime that these hypocrits do in a week. At some point in time, this scam fad will be looked back on and recognised for the total Crock it is. Hard to imagine what they will be able to replace it with or match on a scale of grandeur but god help us when they do hatch something up.
  7. I have been playing with a WVO fueled Burner in a pile of bricks as a furnace. Had a bit of a disaster when I went to melt some aluminium and burned through the steel crucible in about 4 minutes.
  8. Been playing with my oil burners a bit lately and decided tto give one a go in a furnace. Knocked something up real rough but I think it worked OK. Melted Copper pretty easy so maybe the next challenge is to try Heating and shaping some decent thicknesses of stell and working that into shape.
  9. Some people like to over dramatize things and insist their opinion is correct even when they have no experience with what they are talking about Nor is there any other evidence from others to support their position as having credibility. They make things escalate when they argue they are right and won't listed to fact or logic. Why should they be allowed to make false and misleading accusations about something when what they are saying is patently wrong? The internet is a fantastic resource but unfortunately there is not monitoring or checking as to the accuracy of statements made. Therefore it is full of rubbish and garbage presented and repeated as fact when there is no truth to it at all. I get sick to death of this and if anyone gets upset about me correcting misinformation with fact, hopefully they won't post any more garbage next time.
  10. I have never seen, heard or can imagine a situation where there would be a tank of fuel situated near a forge or kiln where the whole lot were subject to boiling and venting as is the case in a BLEVE. As the name describes it is the Boiling of a liquid which turns to vapor that overcomes the ability of the container to hold it which causes the scenario. Who the hell Boils a tank of their fuel with a Forge or Kiln? If the fuel were admitted to a hot forge or kiln without air it certainly can vaporizer and ignite when it does contact a source of oxygen. Inside an enclosure this would be limited. Once the oxygen is burned up, the burning stops. Said enclosure would have to be vented in the first place for the burner to be operating to get it hot enough to cause ignition. I use an oil burner in a large brick pizza oven and I have done lit the vapors off plenty of times. I think I actually singed the hairs on my arms once. Not nearly as dramatic as some would have people believe. The oven is sealed with only one door at the front. It has no chimney. I have had an amount of oil vapour flash off loads of times and there is a bit of a loping flame and that's it. There are no scorch marks 30 ft around the oven, no craters or FAE or BLEVE like occurrences, the physics are not there to cater to them. In an outdoor situation there is no way for anything more than a puff of flame to happen as there is no containment. As was cited as being completely non eventful in the case of using propane, it will be no different with oil or any other vapor. I agree with your statement that all fuels when heated to a vapor in the case of liquids are going to react much the same. If gas is going to be nothing to worry about, neither is oil vapor. In the case of containment, an oil burner needs air to operate so there can never be a fully sealed containment which hugely minimizes the chance of explosion. In a forge or a kiln there must be an in and an out for the hot burnt gasses. Such vents would be of sufficient size to allow the escape of any pressure from a vapor ignition miles before it reached explosive level. If one were operating an oil burner in a shed where the fuel could continue to feed when the air blower stopped,and if the person operating the unit was inattentive enough to allow the huge amount of vapors and smoke to accumulate to cause an explosion, the problem would still not be the fault of the oil burner, it would be entirely that of the moron operating the thing! There is no saving the world from idiots, they are especially clever at coming up with new and improved stupidity every day. A way I look at these things is to turn them round and consider what it would take to create the fear mongered Gloom and doom if you were TRYING to get whatever it was to happen... Similar to what they do on the myth busters show people would be aware of. Bust the theory then try to see what it would take to create the problem on cue. It simply would not be possible to create an explosion, BLEVE, FAE or anything but a FUD in a practical, working forge or oil burning kiln. For one thing the containment isn't there and the "Explosive" would be of a very low order and simply not energetic enough. One would have to construct a Kiln or forge that simply would not operate as it's designed purpose in order to create any sort of remotely explosive like event. Your gun powder analogy is spot on!
  11. Well I thought I knew what a BLEVE was and it was nothing like what you describe. I went and looked it up again through several sources and they described what I thought it to be in the first place. It does not in any way fit your description however which is why I asked for your explanation of it and why you thought the term appropriate. Again you have failed to give any explanation as to your position. 3rd hand reports and knowledge of a totally different situation and equipment is not sufficient to be creditable. There is none of the requirements of a BLEVE in an oil fired Furnace or Kiln. As such, there is simply no way for a BLEVE to occur. Nor a Fuel/ air explosion. I don't mean to be rude but you make a lot of statements warning people off things you don't like and use incorrect terms and reasoning to do so. When asked for a reasoning with the statements you make, you do not provide any backup to support them at all. I'm sorry you find me trying to correct what is plainly wrongful terminology and misrepresentations of the dangers of oil burners boorish but frankly I get fed up with seeing the endless information on the net from people that have no experience or knowledge making patently incorrect statements and arguing them to be indisputable fact when the complete opposite is true. I'm sure you know a lot about and are well qualified in your trade of inspecting asphalt tankers and as I know beans about them, I would never try to tell you about them. Given that you have no experience or first hand knowledge with oil burners nor is there any other sources of mishaps to support what is basically fear mongering on your part through patently incorrect terms, there is no evidence to support to what you are saying. And that is just not my opinion, there are no sources I can find of references to oil forges or kilns exploding and your terms of BLEVE and FAE simply do not fit the established descriptions. I am not being overly pedantic for the sake of it, these terms you are using are very specific and are never used as generic terms for anything else so to use them as you have is patently misleading. Anyway, I just wanted to make anyone that may read this thread aware that the situation was not all gloom and doom as you paint it nor do the dangers exist you purport. I'm sure after this friendly exchange people will be encouraged to look up other information and not be automatically put off by your comments. I'm sure most folk here have good enough reading comprehension to look up the terms you have used and research the occurrences of the dangers you make out and see through the misrepresentations you have made. In doing their own research, people will be able to form their own opinions, enhance their knowledge and make their own risk assessment from there.
  12. Oh good lord! Here we go again. Could you please explain with detail and precision exactly the physical parameters that would allow a BLEVE to occour in the practical use of a Kiln or Forge? You use the word BLEVE but I have real doubts as to if you actually do understand what that is and how it occours. I think its a case of using dramatic words to try and push your agendas on what you believe to scare others with nothing but FUD. But again, please Explain how a BLEVE would occour with relation to a Kiln or furnace. So far from what you have said, this is what I have concluded. *You have never built, used or in fact seen an oil burner working in a forge or Kiln. *Most of your knowledge of the things comes from a single source, your neighbour whom had a reputation as basicaly being ignorant and an idiot and at best had highly unusual practices in the way he operated a Kiln rather than a forge. * You think oil is more explosive that Propane or gasoline. ( That one is pretty telling as to your overall position) * You use words to describe events that are totaly unrelated and physicaly impossible to occour in the practical use of burner as is the topic of this forum. In debates like this I like to take a step back and take a look at reality. In this case that would be along the lines of: How many reported and known incidents of BLEVES and FAE like events have actually occoured with all the people around the world using oil burners in forges? ( or Kilns or anything else?) There is a possibility an Elephant may fall out of a cargo plane and through my roof while I lie in bed sleeping and kill me and my famiily but I'm not ready to stregenthen the roof to allow for such an occourance or move underground just yet. None the less I could drone on endlessly about the danger of falling elephants from Aeroplanes despite the inconvinent fact of it never actually happening ... yet. Over the years I have read endless warnings and saftey sissy carry on about all manner of things that people preach dire and sensationalist warnings about however without fail, when one looks at the number of incidents of these things actually occouring, the number is non existant or minimal and if any have occoured, there is almost always an idiot behind them that defies common sense and logic. If the warnings for things I have done for years bore any semblence to the real and practical danger, I'd be dead about 150 times over by now.
  13. I think you are basing the theroy you espouse as being fact on one incident/ persons use. As a matter of interest, have you built or USED any waste oil burners yourself at all? No disrespect but I have learned over the years when people say things that are in no way relevant to reality, generally they are working off waht they have read and conclusions thus formed rather than having practical experience which differes substantialy. Given that there is no way of knowing really what happened, how your neighbour was using the thing or any other detail, it's hard to give a 3rd hand report much credibility especialy it seems when you werent even present at the incident. I fail to see what a Blower not shutting off would have to do with the creation of any sort of explosive situation. The blower supplys air which would evacuate any vapors before they were likley to get to an explosive level. If the burner or forge was hot enough to ignite the vapors, they would have lit off sooner rather than later because thats what happens with these things. If the blower was still running, the cold air keeps the mix below ignition point, it dosen't fan it up. I know this from years of using the things. I almost always leave my blower going and shut off the oil to let the burner go out and cool things down. If your neighbour was shutting off the blower and letting oil flow, then he would be doing something stupid and just as dangerous no matter if he were using Oil or gas which is also popular. As for Crude, I can controll the heat output to the specific Kw and also the type of flame IE, Neturalising, reducing whatever. Not sure how many gas Burners can control the heat to the KW or have a Turndown ration of 10:1 or more plus the ability to control the flame output. I can run the burner in the vid down to 2-3 Kw and I reckon I could push it to 400 easily. Show me a single industrial gas or oil burner that can do that. Just because I had a mega burner in the video running wild, Don't be fooled by the control and practacality of this design. Just because it isn't complicated does not mean it's crude. As for explosions, in the 5+ years I have been building and using these things and the HUNDREDS of Litres of oil I have burned, Never had one yet nor will I. The things are vented at 2 points. There is nothing to hold the pressure in the burner to create an explosion. Anything like a kiln an oil burner runs in also has to be vented in and out so while you may be able to get a good Puff, At the end of the day the physical requirements for an explosion just don't exist no matter how dramatic people want to make things sound.
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