Gayle Brooks

I have used simple green for the replacement and it works well.

I have forged brass and I believe it was a "naval" brass. Ill have to double check. Though the only time I had it splinter was when it work hardened.

Forged it in the low reds and is super soft and also used a gas forge so I can clearly see it and let it heat up a little more slow and even. Working it in the low reds I kept forging it until the heat was gone and not letting it work harden to the point of splitting.

heat it and quench it then hit it....it splintered, weird, like wood almost

I also have a Nordic 1 1/2# I bought for about $25 new

we have a "cube" of metal the same size that we made a stand for and move it around. Its a good tool to use for whatever it maybe (mostly straightening or teaching new people how to swing a hammer) but none the less. No heat treating, just took the rag off, cleans up the edges and made the stand.

Nice score!
Can't help you much with specific info though.
I was always told that grinding some different radiuses (SP???) in your anvil face gives you consistent curves to work on depending what you're making (times when you need a 1/2" radius in a piece of work). But you still want to keep good square edges as well.
Anyone else been taught this?
aeneas

Im a gamer. Tald was from a RPG game (name was Tald the wise) and then I started playing these first person shooters and died all the time. So I changed it to Tald the dead, since I was always the first to die in the games. I keep the name with other forums so I dont get confused with login. Some seem to think the name is negative or implying some interest in death. Nope just a d00d who likes to play some games after work.

I honestly like a soft hammer, but hey thats just me! Rather resurface a hammer than an anvil. I wouldn't worry all to much about it. Use it and if you think it needs to be harder/softer, then treat it as so.
Good Luck! :D

I had come across that while looking for one and saw the Google books you can actually preview it. Wasnt sure if I should get it, I think the library could get it in. Thanks for the heads up on it and the advise for the file testing.

lol Im getting that one done. Ill post it when its set in the handle. thanks!

ok so after a few days of mulling over this, this actualy turned out to be a good lesson. I talked to my father, whom I work with at our shop, and Chad Gunter. They agreed that the tool you are making needs to be tempered for the application you are going to use it for. Also that the correct steel is used (or properly choosen) for the intended application. BUT not to get confused and think that you can heat treat one steel to "act" like another.

The chart the "new edge of the anvil book" is just that, as you said, suggestions. A beginners rule of thumb and/or a place to start at. I did some research and the w1 is pretty flexible in the temper ranges and think I didnt do anything wrong with the way it was treated. Though next time I think I wouldn't be so blind to do "what the book says."

But take the time to really plan 1)what am I trying to do 2)what steel would be the best for it 3) and how to treat the steel appropriately.

Good stuff. Thanks again.

I had taken Robb Gunter's tool making class and he had brought up Ball peins at harbor freight. The handles bad but the steel is good. So taking his advise I went down and purchased one. Spark tested it and from that I observed it has the same spark to my sample w1. So far the hatchet holds up great and am pretty pleased with the results.

Your questions brought up some ideas. Im going to ask rob, none of my sources reference a temper chart per tool steel per application. I have a temper color chart for a certain applications.

Recently I have been making alot of my own tooling out of various tool steels (sucker rod, h13, w1, etc) Learning about the process of normalizing, annealing, hardening and tempering I choose to take what I knew and apply it to a hatchet.

So this was a ball peen hammer that I made into a hatchet. Though its not a new idea, but was an experiment and new experience for me.

The eye was already set which made it easier and it being w1 is a decent steel. I treated it like a tool I was going to make, and not only shaped it and forged it into something I thought was attractive but heat treated it so that it was more "tough."

From the booklet I got from the Rob Gunter I saw that Brine and Water is a proper quenching medium for w1 and also the temps proper for normalizing, annealing and hardening . The last step (looking in my New Edge of the Anvil book") read that a purple temper was ideal for an axe tool. So by the end I was pretty happy. Shined it up, stained the handle and so far it seems very tough and holds an edge after using it for a while.

To give an idea of the gradient of the toughness: The center (eye) is the softest that progress into the middle of the blade which is hard and from that point to the tip I tempered to a purple which brought the hardness down.

I also did the same treatment to the pick end. I gave this to a friend who works in the forest service and he made a remark that you could do some damage and really get some power behind a swing.

This hatchet with the orange isnt done. This is mild steel forge welded with a 5160 tip. This was alot of fun and cant wait to get it fit to a handle.

Great reply.

To clarify, the purpose of testing the hammers was to attempt to provide some type of numerical data on the performance of the machines under full power for the purpose of comparing hammers. Though full power is not commonly used in most smithing applications, it is the only non-operator influenced item that can be compared in order to give someone, that is not necessarily entirely familiar with the abilities of every style of hammer, an idea about the potential of the machines.

Typicaly the size of the hammer is all that is needed.

As for hammer air supply pressure, the regulator on the hammer is set to 150 PSI and drops to just under 140 during operation which is *exactly* what Big Blu calls for on this equipment "The hammer will run well at 21 cfm’s at 140 psi, but the more air you can supply to the hammer the more efficient it will run." This information is directly from the manufacturer, absolutely no theorizing involved on my part. If that is what the hammer needs then thats what the compressor has to supply, work out or not.

By all means please do it then. Again from what I have seen the cylinder can not hold it and runs just as well at 90-100. Though in the end it is your tool and your $.

There are points I think we could probably go back and forth on and never have a resolution. None the less, like any tool (as we have stated already) needs to be appropriate for the work and the smith.

From you reply we are on the same page. I am not seeing much value in the current "idea" and thats why we have these topics. They are great to get people talking, theories buildings and other to express perspectives, thoughts and suggestions.

As for the warning that this wasn't an attack, or some comment that you thought was directed to you.. I dont know anyone on these forums and some wear their hearts on their sleeves. Kinda xxxxx if I bring it up and xxxxx if I dont. So again I apologize if it seemed that way, wasn't intentional.

jeremy k: Good points by everyone - one other variable which may or may not be involved is the age and wear on an existing hammer. New hammers should work great, older ones have as much control as possible only related to maintenance / use.

Oh yes

Just a note, this isnt an attack or saying this "idea" is xxxx but seems to be coming up alot.

Hits per minute is an interesting idea, yet if it hits faster than you can control it, be efficient and produce a clean result, then it is a hazard. I agree that the dyes should have some clearance and that will be proportional to the size of hammer.

I've never understood the idea to "test" a hammer. So many factors are in play and these hammers can be adjusted is more than one way. The most important thing on the hammer is the smith (like any tool.) That hammer will be limited to what it can do by the smith using it. Most of the time smiths who can not use a hammer properly, do not know how to forge at the anvil properly either. They coincide of each other and use the same principles.

If anything the dyes/clutch (cylinder/ air relay if air) on the hammer need to be set properly to get the most out of it. This seems to be overlooked. None the less a larger hammer will always have more power, but if the person does not know how to get the most out of it then they will not be efficient and possibly a hazard to themselves. These tools are dangerous and very bad things can happen under them very fast.

The fullering dies putting force on a small amount of mass will obviously make that mass move faster. Pulling a piece of metal to a near welding heat...of course its going to move fast.

Our test for a hammer is by cycling it when you press the treadle down. Can you control it enough to just "tap" the dyes, does it hit consistent or skip, can you do a clean one hit blow, or does it need to cycle once to get power? The speed will always be there, if not then most likely it isn't adjusted or something is worn. Because it "hits hard" doesn't make is a good hammer.

Also, I am surprised how many people cannot draw a taper efficiently, do not have their hammers (both air and belt) setup properly (no stable, mounted base) and have a theory that these hammer like the blue need 175 psi because thats what the hose can hold. At that high of psi you are just giving your air compressor a workout.

Ours our set at 100 psi which goes to 90 when the hammer is in use. They have had minimal problems, the air compressors are fine (going on 10 years.) So far we have had to rebuild a blue and a Bull (which is an older version of the Phoenix) because the smith was running it at 145 psi. Both hammers lasted a year before the cylinder failed. Mine, which started at the same, time has done fine with no problems.

Again, this isn't a "Your idea is xxxx!" because it isn't. None the less the tool is limited by the person running it. Control is everything and the tool doesn't make the art, we do.

Good stuff guys.

I have noticed that the women seemed to be more open and interested mean while the men seem to spout out (most if the time talking a bit loud) of what they know, which isnt much by the end of the convo.

Maybe its me, or where I demo? Anyone else have similar experience?

Family business. It was at one time used as a form of punishment. Got in trouble, then I was stuck organizing the metal rack, grinding/detailing welds, cleaning shop...I tried to not get caught at least!

Teenager years I was in and out of the shop, picked up some forging techniques along the way. After high school, I was offered a full time position, took it and went to college (majored in 3d animation.) College was finished and found out the entertainment industry doesnt pay. So 8 years of full concentration on this craft and attending various classes, workshops things are coming along nicely. Most of the projects now are traditional joinery and not the fabrication jobs.

From the gigs we get to the tooling we have to create to accomplish them, this is more than just "work" but something I am.

Higher carbon steels weld at a lower temperature than mild steels, but burn at a lower temperature too...

Hence welding carbon steels could be easier in the sense that it can be done at an easier to reach temperature, with less chance of heavy scaling (due to having to use a strong air blast), but is harder in the sense that they are much easier to overdo, and burn. Many other things can go wrong. Most resources I have consulted state that welding carbon steels in the forge is not practical!? I can't agree with this, since many have actually achieved it just fine...