jake pogrebinsky

Hi again,cracker72,and thanks for that expanded inquiry.Afraid,that not being a professional historian,archaeologist,et c.,and not even being that well informed,here's what little that i can contribute(with any degree of certainty...). These objects,most probably,are from the pre-Mongol period(earlier than the 13th cent.) For those of them that are officially provinanced,the surrounding content offers no clues(some of these are from private,"pirated" digs,which are only all too common all over the world). The protrusions,"langettes" on the sides of the eye are a common feature of many periods,earlier and much later,and in and of themselves only indicate the possible heavier duty usage of tool,expanding the area of contact with the haft.(Similar to the longer back of eye in the last photo,and,making the eye so overbuilt relative the bit,lends credence to the possible masonry/earth-digging/root-chopping application). And,no,it's a very typical wrapped eye,and had no extention on the poll side. Sorry,that's all the context that i posess... Off the top of my own head,based on my woodworking experience,all the tools for the deep mortice work were always straight,simply because they were never striking,but always struck tools(or pushed by hand).These are obviously radiused for striking,very odd,given the reach of the bit... Thanks again,Jake

Hi,John.Here's a link to a few more examples of the same:http://rusknife.org/forum.php?tid=1172&page=3 (Sorry about the text being in russian,but the discussion there sheds no light on the possible nature of the tool). In the last photo there,on the map where some of the finds were discovered(Mordovia region),there are some other objects.Arrow-heads,and an obvious scorp.So it's clear that the finds are a mixed bag. Regards,Jake

Hi,cracker72,great tool!To my shame i never did know what the twybill was for,so thanks for that,as well. You know,forging a tool that has a specific purpose helps a lot,these days.So many people forging as a hobby,divorced from the actual use of an object,are wondering off into some strange,fantastical shapes...(Nothing wrong with fantasy,in my book,but,a real tool refined by the many generations of craftsmen has that shape that the one man's imagination has to work at,to rival). Would be nice to see what you're up to with them nice hewn timbers in the photo,as well.Or the tool in action. By the way,you wouldn't have any idea as to what that may've been used for?Is there an analog in a traditional English toolchest? Thanks,and all the best.Jake

Great,again,i really like the shape that you ended up with,good sense of what's what,in tools! Here,in Athapaskan-indian country,a real woodsman will also carry the axe at all times(i once was made to unpack the load that i've tied onto a pack-board,'cos like a supid whiteman i packed away the axe with other tools that we were humping). The popular model here is a 1 3/4# Collins boy's axe(or any similar HBC type axes),also an Estwing all-metal jobs.The handle on practically all these is 26",so yours is rather long.And,some do hold it by the head when walking,but mostly just choked-up under the head. Keep up the great work,and thanks,Jake

Right on,Dave. In the way that you made those,by bending the tab back and welding,you can further improve the fit/appearance by forging in a square corner first.Then,as you're rolling the barrel,that corner may even become sharper than sq.,and fit the curve even more. All the best.

OK,here's one, http://www.blacksmith.com.ua/component/option,com_datsogallery/Itemid,2/func,viewcategory/catid,126/ The work is by Igor Fesenko. If you wanted to look up some more,here're the words to search by: гуцульский топор/бартка Sorry,Stormcrow,to do this to your thread!But the similarity is uncanny!

Argh,shoot,Derek,i've just come across some photos of those very axes,not sure if i can track them down again. Try the neighbors,Don Fogg's "bladesmith's forum",there's a man by name of Jiri Javourek,he's got a number of regional axe designs down,see if you can track down his work.

Looks VERY cool,Stormcrow,i like it!Heck of a good practice doing this,no matter what! The function of it i can't judge by the photo,and it's really subjective anyway.Have to say that the poll is pretty massive for that general shape/size. Also not sure about the angle of the blade,but again,all that is contingent on the chore+operator preference. The handle is so long it looks like those regional south-west Slav axes,that the Gutsul(for one)use as walking sticks,and never part from! Great job,i really like it!

Umm...Dave,frankly,all shop drawings made by someone else(client) are suspect to me...Something here about the 1" pin is strange,seems out of proportion with thickness of stock.But,all that aside. Math-wise,i'd just lay it out with a flexible something,a piece of belt or a lengh of lead solder. Forge-welding something like this would only make sense if you make your bends backwards,bending clear around the pin to the back side of strap,leaving a nice long tapered scarf to weld to the back.In this case the closest to the pin mounting holes are also punched through the weld area,further reinforsing it. Usually hinges like this are just brought around and butted to the inside of the bend(this is where the dia. of the pin gives me pause,so much more leverage...But it's just me). To start the bend like this may not be easy:The end,having nothing past it,provides no leverage,and is hard to get to bend in a fair curve.May leave some sacrificial extra lengh,to be cut off once the bend is half way. To a half point of arc or more i usually scroll those on the anvil,with a hammer.After the pin has some place to sit in,the vise can be useful,then the hammer again to close the circle.Both the plate "tines" will,of course,have to be kept co-axial,by use of pin,while closing. All in all,a challenging project.Wish you the very best of luck. Regards,Jake

Hi,Dave! Offset-wise,would not just a flattening of the split area work just as well?It moves the material out,width-wise,leaving more of it to create that tapered look that is the essence of the heart-shape. Making the "convenience" bend is probably not the most stressful part,though it is kinda rough(the real damage comes from the very localised,concentrated peening,which may happen concurrently against the edge of anvil). But is the bending necessary?Afterall,the heart has near a 90 deg.corner,so that the tines can be forged by opening them +/-120 deg from stock(it's a bit awkward forging with your arm high,but builds character! ) Man,that's a shame about your horn-tip!Wonder if you can just tack something on to it,afterall,the horn is just a dead-blow part,so that the rebound,hardness,et c.,is not an issue. Making a bick for your hardie hole would just take a moment,it doesn't have to be that nice,or sturdy. But,actually,just curling the tapers with a hammer works well,not againt a surface,but against the resistence of the stock gage itself,+ the heat difference.To my way of thinking that makes for the fairest curves. But everyone works differently,anyway,and i'm sure that you'll develop the techniques of your own that work for you just as well. The heart-shape with something else off the end of one of the tines is easy,it's just that the split was started a short distance away from the end,that extra mass can then be forged into something else too. Anyway,Dave,you're doing a great job,keep on hammering!

Dave,with all due respect,it looks like to me that the base of both tines is severely overworked.Some use the term "brashness" to describe that.In effect,the steel is damaged by cracking,and it's not surprising that you loose some tines doing it that way. Here's what i'd do different(all purely subjective,of course). 1.That initial offset,over the edge of anvil,is it necessary?IF so,then the radius to which you do it is critically small.that alone can damage steel irrevokably(BTW,that whole edge of your anvil is scary sharp and damaged.Latter BECAUSE of the former,i.e.not dressed to a radius(again,IMHO)).Such severe stress on steel MAY be applied if strictly necessary,but as a last stage of working,as all subsequent vibration/flexure will compound the damage. 2.The chisel-split causes the parts to become trapezoid in section.What's wrong with that?The heart shape is,by nature,a set tapering lines.That extra facet of the split can be used to further accent that.That will save you all the labor of working the tines clear to the point of the V of the split(Do they really need to be worked there,where the diverse stresses were already so tough on steel?). Also,you may try tapering the stock before splitting,to further save steps. 3.All of the above,plus those bends to get one of the tines out of your way is what stresses the steel so badly.In my opinion it can all be avoided.So,to reiterate:Taper the stock first.Split(possibly trimming the "flash"with a sharp chisel or a file.Work only the last 1 to 2 thirds of lengh of tines to come up with a pleasing-looking taper. 4.Heart-shape,a variant of an S,or a recurve shape,is very easy to work with a hammer alone.Bending the tines with pliers introduces a certain "artificiality" of form,by interfering with the natural,logarithmic bending of a taper. Becides,it's a great practice,very helpful in understanding what it is that the iron's trying to tell us. Yet again,all this is strictly IMHO,and hope that it will help,rather than otherwise. All the best of luck,Jake P.S.I've happened to just finished a set of 16 hooks with a similar rod-ending,also 3/8"(log-spikes,actually).I didn't really take any photos with this in mind,but just in case will post one of the process.Not sure that it'll illustrate what i've said,as i took it for a different reason....Darn it,they're both lousy shots(and shoddy work as well,i really hurried this order),but,in the forge shot,there's one on the right that kinda illustrates what i mean about the facet of a trapezoid.

Oh,but let's not forget that the ancient Egyptians and Incas had this one great tool...Slaves! All the successful,productive cultures did,from the Kingdom of Zimbabwe to the Tsimshian culture a bit s.e. of here.It's a great way to get stuff done!(Not our crowd here,though,life was too rough). Unfortunately,my ethnic background predisposes one toward a slightly different position on slavery(as the etymology of a term "slavic" indicates... ). Come to think of it,i can really picture myself a couple of thousand years ago as an artisan-slave,maybe i'd have even been a good one!(Alas,all the craftsmanship has fled the slavery nowadays,maybe that's why when i was a minimum-wage slave i was such a bad one...). The artisan-slave in modern times is more of a beggar(i.e.grants,from the wealthy and/or the mighty),as the artisan still has to make ends meet,somehow. OK,enough of silliness,sorry about that. Yes,very true.Investment also is an old,and simple trade,and not a "rocket science",it can,and it SHOULD be practiced on some level. (What you wrote vividly brought back memories of a few glorious explosions of some (incompletely dried)plaster molds of my misspent youth! And it's the lack not of slaves but rather of self-discipline that prevents me from better utilising the winters,it's very true. This is a lovely time of year,the spring is,in part because one can entertain such high hopes for the next winter! Thanks for encouragement,you're very much right.

Hi,Bart,i forgot to add that you did a good job on these,you drew it out gradually in section nicely(it helps a good deal,as the dog is essentially a spring). 11/16" is often not in stock,but it's nothing exotic.Any place should be able to get it for you given a few days.Cold-rolled,if possible,as that's especially(dimentionally)reliable. Nice job on them planing dogs,too.(Never could bring meself to make any,as it sets me teeth on edge,just getting that close to iron with a plane). All the best,Jake

Ah!Thanks for that info,sir,very interesting. In a way,i've always felt uncomfortable for neglecting the non-ferrous metal casting side of things. Certainly in terms of information,especially the specific stuff like this. I have a 2-buner set-up built for an A-6 crucible,(even have one kicking around,a SiC kind,that i've EVEN forged tongs for...). But certainly no investment materials.Pattern-making,too,would pose a serious learning-curve challenge. All surmountable difficulties,and the ones that a wise metalworker would be best to get even a little experience with.Handy stuff. Thanks again,Jake

The holdfast with the leaf-end,on the top-most photo(with a line of holdfasts),was made by my friend/mentor/long-time partner in all things forged Phil Koontz. Originally,many years ago,for Chris Shwartz,the editor of Woodworking Magazine. (Over the years i've also bootlegged enough of them,helping Phil to keep up with orders). We both find it that the 11/16" rd stock works better in the standard,3/4" hole in most benches.The depth of bench-top matters,too-the deeper,the less positive is the locking action,to where starting at approx. 4" they may have to be counter-bored from the bottom of bench. In regard to marring,et c.,a sacrificial wooden pad is,of course,always used with iron bench-dogs. In a foto the holdfasts are stuck in the forge to scale the vert.part,as that adds some friction to further help their holding in the bench.

Very true,Clay,it would certainly be a way to accomplish something like this in a classy manner.Thanks for the thought. I was also thinking that if i was actually up against having to do it myself,with my limited skills,then i'd cut it out of an appropriate thickness sheet with a plasma cutter,true it up with an abrasive bit of a Foredom,and laminate it onto similar(or contrasting)background. At this point i still hope to find a shop to do it using a CNC controlled end-mill,it shouldn't be too much of a challenge for some moderate-size shop,being practically a 2D project.

That's a very valid thought,now that you've mentioned it. I'm realising now that i just automatically envisioned this type of work as a deep,solid bas-relief. Something somber,very intentional,about the depth of such work,perhaps better befitting the purpose. In contrast with that,the engraving being so much shallower(must specify this subjective instance alone,far from slighting the engraving in general),and "looks" it. Possibly my impession is from seeing so much of a very poorest sort of engraving around,since the advent of pneumatic gravers and other mechanised means of it. One has to design carefully,to avoid that "dog-taggy" sorta look. On the other hand,due to mechanisation,casting now has alternatives.So,with the mention of SS what came to mind was a CNC milling,first and foremost.I'd imagine that the industry uses a number of other tools as well,electro-etching,et c. But that's just me,and i appreciate your input much,especially since i'm not sure at all that the people,that will be ordering and installing it,actually share my assumption in this matter... :huh:

Thanks,Jimmy,but i'm just trying to help the folks in finding someone who would do it,i'm not set-up for ss work,especially raised-work that i envision this to be. Myself,i'm even lousy with the black oxide finishes...

Nuge,thanks.The general idea of diverse white-metals did cross my mind,but i couldn't recall much about their stability outside,over the long term.Some metals' oxides have a tendency to continue their development,never stabilising entirely(many Al alloys are that way).But my understanding of alchemy is weak,and it is an interesting point.

Thanks much.It helps a lot by giving me a direction in which to proceed.

I'd like to humbly ask for help in tracking down a (somewhat)specific alloy,it's finish,and also,if possible,a reputable craftsman or a shop capable of executing the work itself. A very old and dear friend has tragically passed away.Her family has asked my help in finding someone capable of casting/fabricating a plaque that will be mounted into the memorial bench at the cemetary. The required plaque needs to be oval,approx. 12" by 6",and be dark grey in color. The material needs to be SS or Ti(as i believe that both can be patinated grey,although it is very far from my area of expertise). Both Cu and the Al alloys are not an option,for a number of reasons. The inscription will contain a number of symbols,and will have to be fairly detailed. These are the basic parameters,and i'll greatly appreciate both the thoughts on the metallurgy of the project,as well as any and all recommendations as to a specific person,perhaps specialising in these metals.The location is East Coast,RI,but due to the moderate size of object all locations will be considered. Many thanks in advance.

Wonderful,Sir,all the best to ye on all projects,and post some nice TF joints,if you can! That actually may be a good approach,something like "where the rubber hits the road" thread on the making,and thereafter using,woodworking tools in the context of a specific application. Best regards,Jake

Yessir,everything that Clay brings up is very valid,indeed.I,too,more often use chisels bevel down. (Primarily log-building,where it's all curved lines,and hogging-out of material.Alaskan White spruce does not lend itself well to timber-framing,plus the climate,necessitating SIPs,which make any framing redundant... ). When briefly participating in a couple of frame-cutting episodes,i do remember how nicely the slick worked for that sweeping,radial motion,kinda diagonally oriented to the grain.That also made me think that the wider/shorter blade is handier(sorta Japanese-style,the look that the very worn old slicks aquire-makes it easier to see what's up,for one). But,to continue with my (pointless) )semantics:ALL the rough-out tools are rockered:Adze,broad-axe,draw-knife,slick...The reason for it is that the rocker steers the tool out of the cut(exactly as the bevel-down useage does ).And,all these tools have their flat-soled counterparts,for finishing. The reason that i indulge in such nit-picking particulars is that i'm a metalworker,primarily,and studying the shape/mechanics of blades is so ever complex...Once,someone wanted me to re-blade their worn-out broad-axe.It was not to be,but the photos of the tool blew my mind with the complexity of curves,almost seemed that it was bent in all 3 dimentions...What it has to do with,technically,is chip relief.I noticed that someone posted the Modern Blacksmith link.Weygers sure had explored that issue very deeply,what an interesting man he was!Anyway,whatever works is the right way!!! B)

Sorry,i'll try to put it in a different way:When you put it against the table,the edge and the opposite,the handle end,should rise a small distance,relative the middle of the blade.Where you can rock it back and forth(thus the term-rocker). The reason for that is that a slick is a tool used for the rougher,more preliminary stages of finishing,before there's a clear flat reference.The rocker allows the tool to ride over the irregularities. Conversely,the chisel(being the hand-held plane,in effect),has a strict flat/level reference plane for it's sole.To finish-plane the surface absolutely flat. (Hope that makes sense... )