George Geist

Is a calking vise. Like Thomas said you hold it closed with your foot. They don't have springs. If I can find a film of the thing being used I'll put it up but in the meantime have a look at the sharp shoeing jobs done on these horses for the winter ice in this vid. A calking vise was a very handy tool for this type of work.

George

5 hours ago, njanvilman said:

My take is it looks more like a Trenton.  Is that the remnants of the diamond visible on the side?  Side profile and horn do not look like a HB.

From this vantage point I'm inclined to agree with Josh.

George

Waiting for them to get back to me. Hopefully hear from them today.

Bought a used Hypona gas forge recently. It came with no hose or regulator. I realize any of them will probably work but does anybody know what regulator that model of forge comes with? Same as Forgemaster? Or NC? Anybody have one or know?

George

Why all this talk about angle grinders? Especially to a beginner. What ever happened to using a hot rasp? 

Also please don't be spending upwards of $200 on hammers. As taxpayers we got mad at the government for throwing away that kind of money toward General Dynamics, Halliburton etc. Let's try to be a bit more intelligent at a personal level.

George

As for jurisdictional agreements of the various labor organizations......

Stuff being talked about here is domain of the ironworkers. Any construction blacksmithing to be done is job of the boilermakers but ironworkers pretty much handle what's being talked about here.

George

30 minutes ago, Marc1 said:

Interesting shape ... is that to have the bending fork on one end and still plenty of work surface left in the centre?

Not made with that in mind but I suppose it could be used for that.

Essentially those type of patterns were made with horseshoers in mind. The bigger horn and narrow face with cut under heel as well as 2 pritchel holes are very handy for shaping horseshoes as well as the tools associated with that specialty.

The thing I like best about that one is the size. Most horsehoers anvils are between 100 and 125 lbs. That one being so much heavier (obviously a shop anvil) is a big plus.

George

Real nice one, obviously the pattern copied years later by multi-products, AP BigTex and so on.

Hole in horn I'd guess to be a modification somebody did to it for some reason known only to themselves.

Wish a contemporary maker would still offer that pattern. Is excellent for horseshoers.

George

Mr Elliott,

Thank you for your service sir.

Here's a link to someplace else where yours truly posted a few vids of how to build your own:

http://horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/111-build-your-own-forge/

Not really that hard and perhaps a little less aggravating than trying to fix one? The one you have looks like an old riveters forge. Nice find though. The TPAAAT is probably best way to get an anvil. To each his own and all that kinda thing but in JMNTBCHO an NC is barely out of the ASO category.

14 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

The problem isn't so much about having standards. I am all for insuring that we learn to trim, and when nessisary shoe horses in a manner that is healthy for horses. The issue comes when some one tries to dictate to me that I must trim or shoe in a manner I know is not the best for the horse.

Can you give any examples of any such individuals or groups who might be doing that?

14 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

 

A lot of old wisdoms was lost, both in shoeing and training when the model T and tractor displaced the horse, we are just now rediscovering that wisdom and subjecting it to scientific study. 

Very true. Is why I said there is nothing new in the trIe. Twas all known by 1900.

14 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

 

As to EDS, I don't usualy buy their package, I forge shoes and make frog pads with sole leather, barge cement and cobbler tacks. Buy removing the stress from the toe, insuringthe  sole and frog are subjected to ground presher and stress is reduced (some bio enginiring papers suggest 40%) on the flexor tendons with square toes set back to the white line and egg bar heals. Raised heals only provide 5%. So yes, for most theropudic shoeing we only need one package. Now medical shoes, EDS dosnt replace as many shoes, but often the same package can be adapted. Certainly not a one size fits all, I wouldn't want to put it on a pigion toed adult horse as it would interfear with his break over, but te same basic therory of moving the break over back, and ckmbined with the eggbar heals reduce the tendon stress and a frog pad now mediates one off showings biggest flaws, the frog no longer touches the ground. 

Ok, assuming you've had some good luck with this, do you do a resection on the toe in combination with this package? If not, what do you do about the inevitable abscesses?

14 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

 

I probably ended up projecting some of my bad experiances with horseshoers on you. Not likening how my horses wher treated got me in school for this, the local betts got me doing other peaples lame horses, but it took a long time of research and practice to unlearn the stupid, harmful things I was taught in school.

That I find easily believable. Too many of the schools merely prostitute the trade with no concern to the destruction they bring on the industry.

14 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

 

has sertification changed that much? 15 years ago one had to have so many hours apprenticeship or training with a "certified instructor" show your shoe board and shoe a horse in under 2 hours with handmades of the type specified by the tester (even if you didn't belive that was the best for the horse) you could demand that the tester forge said shoes. Obviusly if he couldn't he wasn't qualified to inspect yours. 

Not sure which certifying group you're referring to. If you're talking about AFA you're incorrect.

I think both of you would like the Unions test. Is a better way to do things.

Aside from that I think best thing about certification is legitimacy. I don't know either of you from a can of paint. If you were certified Id be sure you'd made the grade and earned your place in the trade. Without that, all I can be sure of is that you folks are some people on the internet.

14 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

Dont get me wrong, manditory licensing and certification would meen I would triple my prices, and my accountent would like that.  

 

Another good point. Certainly nothing wrong with earning a living wage.

11 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

 

This is not the case with a new customers adding that 2% horse as the feet are so distorted with major imbalance. From others work or lack of work.

 in just a few trims thier feet look like all the others and its not because I file any flares to look that way.. ( I do not model or change the feet to look like an ideal example ((Picture perfect))) They change all on their own..  Heal them from the inside..if you will.

Asked before. For some inexplicable reason you never answered.......What is balance?

11 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

 I trim for balance only...(  they naturally evolve on there own simply from balancing the foot and weight bearing..)) and recognizing where to leave stuff and where to take it..

So while I have found what I do to be very effective, the traditional trimming models and mentality of many a Farrier is stuck in the dark ages.

I kinda like how it was done during the Renaissance and Enlightenment periods. Not really sure how much it differed during the Dark Ages but I'll check on that for you

11 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

After George posted his comments I did go online and started looking at what is being discussed and shown as more modern traditional farrier work and I have to confess there are some farriers out there now looking at different alternatives..  

But a lot I looked at including the barefoot trim vs the shoers trim and all the arguments came back to the same conclusion for me...

 With the exception of radiusing the wall with a bevel just what do you find different about one trim versus another? We needn't mention Strasser butchery.

11 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

Which was /is...  traditional farriers are reluctant to see the benefit of what the more natural hoof trim mechanics offer..  until they started to see profits going down and losing customers to farriers specializing  in barefoot.

Hmmmmm, can't help but wonder who it was that taught these super trimmers how to trim? Nah, I'll stand by what I said before. First week apprentice work.

11 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

With this being said I then saw where most traditional farriers down played what the barefoot guys have been saying

See above.

11 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

From my stand point..  the only time I remove sole or flare is when it's necessary to get to a proper supportive structure that is non invasive.

Live sole isn't wittled away at by anybody competent that I know. Why is it talked about as if it's a widespread problem? Flares if not dealt with can and will cause much more complicated issues to develop. Ever see a Heavy Horse with hooves split like three leaf clovers because of flares? I'd contend that when you see them you better get pretty aggressive about dealing with them. If horses are kept on proper schedules such issues should be minimal though.

11 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

 

Mr Stevens I am with you as to certifications.  And you taked on sole trimming etc etc..

While they do offer a set standard which is better than no standard .  I myself don't follow what those standards are because I don't believe in their methods..  Making shoes and fitting them is easy..or I should say the requirements are not difficult for a well trained shoubg farrier.  That's not the problem. 

The problem is by doing so it means you support the organisation....

Doesn't mean anything of the kind. Those excuses are pretty sorry. On this forum we have a lot of welders. Welding certs require a test. They're also tested at every job by every contractor. If they don't weld for 6 months they need to re-test. It's pretty redundant but they do it. Is there a law requiring certs to operate an arc welder? No. It's the JOB MARKET that demands it. Do they whine about it or the testing bodies? No. They just do it. Truck Drivers take a State test then are re-tested at every job. Do they whine about it? No. They just do it. Any occupation you want to name. The JOB MARKET demands it people do it.

Crying out loud this is the only occupation I can think of that the practitioners of fight to the death to keep any kind of standards from being introduced to their industry.

11 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

George by you posting what you did and while thinking most of it was a traditional farriers stand point. It did lead me to look around at the industry and it did give me hope for change as every where I looked people are asking the same questions I was asking 20 years ago and found most of those question could be answered barefoot...:) 

To what question is that which you refer?

11 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

While I think and feel there can be a time and a place for shoeing i don't think it should be option #1..

Correct answer is "it depends". Clarify what situation you're referring to.

11 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

 

It's is truly amazing how resilient the horses feet really are.

And. Again the only real consideration is how happy and sound the horses are.. Do what you must to get them there..

Agreed

11 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

By the way.. George.. no one is attacking you or what you do..  its a discussion..

Exactly, nor am I attacking anyone else. Just encouraging folks to use a cauliflower shaped object located behind their eyeballs.

11 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

Proving or saying this person or that person is a quack means little to me as I've been called stupid and an idiot by Vets and farriers 20 years ago who now refer me all the time to horses with problems...

Truth be told they probably still trash you behind your back same as they always did and probably sent you stuff they didn't want 20 years ago same as today. Me too

As long as we're not running for office or asking for any of their votes we really don't need to give a fiddlers fart what anybody thinks of us do we?

Nice one, good score

George

22 minutes ago, Forgehermet said:

Any ideas on what to make with them?

Well....

I've made small pony shoes, belt buckles, things like that. Some people make railroad spike knives which are pretty neat after throwing in a twist and polishing up. Basically you're only limited by your own imagination. Steel is steel. 

If you're new to forging I'd suggest not making anything in particular but use them for practice. Forge the square shape into an octagon. Then forge the octagon round. Then forge back square again. Practice drawing, tapering and upsetting. Basic fundamentals. Is all good.

If you do find some wrought iron ones you'll learn proper temperature. Those need to be forged as hot as possible. White or welding heat then stop when it's at about orange. If it cools to red it's too cold and will break. Steel can be worked all the way down to black but not iron. Iron spikes will teach you that if you can find them.

George

Just now, Forgehermet said:

Would railroad spikes be good to use to practice because they have such a low carbon count? I have plenty of those

Yes, they're excellent. Plenty of stuff you can make with them. If lucky, sometimes you can find real old ones made of wrought iron too.

George

There's a place nearby called Wertz Coal Yard in Mechanicsburg where you can get good coal. Trying to use anthracite is a waste of time.

Good luck to you.

George

8 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

I mis spoke. Young Bar. Unless you come out and adjust a tung bar every week or two the hoof grows out reducing the support on the frog, EDS reduces both the stress on the flexor tendons. Reducing the odds of rotation, and the frog pad produces a more normal frog support. I use foam board and tape as first aid, and some times ply wood rockers.

Interesting. Have you had a lot of success with it?

8 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

 

 

tho qualified to stand to be certified I do not agree with many of the methods methods deported by either of the bodies, many teckniches they insist you know and be prepared to use are either outdated or simply unreported buy classical or modern reserch. 

Not sure which bodies you refer to here. AFA? BWFA? Essentially all they ask is for you to pass a pretty easy written test, make a shoe display and shoe two feet with keg shoes. Is really not that big a deal. I'd say if it were administered properly, and not run by a bunch of knuckleheads as it often is, I'd highly recommend anybody who couldn't pass that test to give serious consideration to a different career choice.

That's my opinion on it. What would you change about it to make it better?

8 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

 

Lastly I deal with kickers in my practice, certainly don't at home.

As I said before I'd highly doubt you'd have an ill broke puke on your place. Bad horses are a direct reflection upon the people. In case it went over your head that was a compliment.

8 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

 

i do not apretiate your greater than thou attitude and condescending attitude. Just because jlp and I disagree with you dosnt invalidate our experience or expertise. Your obvius prejudice and close mindedness gives me pause. 

 

Never said it did unless we're talking about spelling maybe? The questions I asked you were very open minded actually. Is in an attempt to learn something. I've dealt with a few founders. I've won some, I've lost some. So have you so has she. So has everybody. Hard as we may try, it will continue to be something that confounds horsemen as it has since the first two horses stepped off the ark. I've seen heart bars work and I've seen horses die graveyard dead no matter what was done. I've seen some helped by shoes, I've seen plenty helped by being left bare.

Questions I asked of you are in an attempt to spur on some critical thinking among everybody. My apologies if you think I was showing you disrespect. That was certainly not my intent.

What happens that gets folks like me started on being a pain in everybody's butt is absolutist statements. The words "always" and "never" should not be in our vocabulary when discussing the trade. When folks do make such statements they should be prepared to defend them.

George

16 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

 

Honestly, if you tell me I have to forge and apply a heart bar on a lamitic horse I will tell you wich end of the horse to kiss, and either forge a square toe egg bar, make up a frog pad and inject silicon under it or just buy an EDS packay 

Why is that? First off what have you got against heart bars and why would you choose the method you described? Would you always do this each and every time? If so why and if not why not?

Quote

 

I will also tell you to stick your head in the slack tub if you expect me to trim the frogs and soles down. I do that only when absolutely necessary, infact I leve the frogs long if I shoe.

Again, every time? Even when they're forming a nice rock trap? How about when full of thrush? Do you ever get retained sole? If so what do you do about it?

Quote

What is taught and expected of for certification is 90% unnecessary and 50% bad practice. 

Might you be certified perchance? If not have you ever stood for a certification?

Quote

 

 I can break a horse from kicking at me with out cruelty. 

I'm sure that's the case. I'd highly doubt we'd ever find an ill broke puke in your barn.

Nice work

George

I'm sure Josh will be along soon enough but if it were delaminating I believe it would be a first.  Fishers just don't do that to best of my knowledge. 

Hard to tell from photo but I tend to doubt it.

George

Happy Memorial Day everybody.

To those still living who served in the Armed Forces...Thanks 

2 hours ago, Mikey98118 said:

I believe it could be described as a carburizing flame, in the same sense that an acetylene flame (even a 'nuetral' one) is carburzing; that is, it produces excess carbon, along with carbon by products into the immediate environment of the work. Carbon fumes, carbon dioxide, and carbon monoxide. Carbon fumes and carbon monoxide around the area of the work, should both do a pretty fair job of soaking up loose oxygen faster than it can cause much oxydation in the heated steel. And the coal/charcoal the work is surrounded by would keep this local "atmosphere" close, all of the time the steel is heating. That's my take on it, but I could be wrong.

Let the debate begin; its the geeky thing to do

 

Well yeah, but let's not forget that coal also has carburizing oxidizing and neutral flames. The more oxidizing the less smoke. New fire with green coal smokes a lot till it cokes up. Hard to say if it has a bearing on scale formation because we're always fine tuning and fussing with the fire to keep it burning right. Gas we don't do that. What we got is what we got.

George

Another thing I think worth mentioning is gas forges do get buildup of waxy by products and dirt in their hoses and fittings from time to time which can mess up fuel flow.

Aside from that using gas your work will scale up more anyway regardless. I've always wondered if coal burned cleaner or if it just knocked a lot of scale off by rubbing against to coal when pulled in and out?

George

I like this thing but looks to be totally useless without it's holder or something similar being fabricated.

Very cool

George

Get the best you can afford. It's one tool that will last the rest of your life. You don't need to be buying another one down the road.

George

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

I'm trying to say that..  While certification sets a minimum standard it should only be a stepping stone to further understanding.  And with the same problems going on or taking place as long as there has been published Data.. Don't you think it's time that these issues are fixed instead of dealing with the problems once they exist and it's to late..

Not sure why you have so many cripples. You talk as if everything is lame. I've been shoeing a long time and haven't done any I can remember from birth to death but a few have been real close and most all the ones I've done stayed sound and healthy all their lives.

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

 

   I wish that were the case.. That it was only owner error that is..   I've gotten 13 new customers since the 1st of the year with lame horses all in shoes..  I've gotten 30 new customers in the last 10 years all from bad shoe jobs.. 

 Again, what exactly is their problem and what did their being shod do to cause it?

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

 

     If you show a hoof to 15 different farriers and ask them to trim it.. You will get 15 different results..

Wanna bet? Go to any parimutual track you care to visit. Look at them in the paddock before they run when they're all freshly done. I challenge you or anybody else to tell me who did who.

Shoeing competitions same deal. When folks set out to do them all the same they'll all be the same.

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

No they are not..  Laminitis is the inflammation of the laminae. Both acute and chronic.  Founder is when the tissues start to fail/shear/stretch and P3 rotates or Founders just like when a boat founders and was coined from that very thing..  While laminitus has many onsets,  Short term high dose exposure to sugars is a main culprit.. Obese horses when put into work can have a glucose reaction/release and get laminitus from such releases as the body can't process the sugars fast enough.. 

 Correct as far as acute and chronic but one thing you left out. Acute is a vet problem. Chronic is a shoer problem. Fortunately I've reached an age that I don't need to worry about doing this very much anymore as I have other better sources of income. Thus, I pretty much observe the hairline. Vets I know don't concern themselves with things below the hairline. That's mine. Anything above the hairline is theirs. They can have the whole rest of the horse. Not a bad deal huh?

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

 

Long term exposures to Sugars is what leads to changes in the Pituitary gland. Young horse can get Cushings . This is what cushings is all about.. Again sugar related.. from overly sugared feeds, or excessive grassy turn out.

 You'll find that certain animals will develop such maladies regardless of what you do or don't do for them. There is expensive medicine that's pretty effective in slowing it down, but eventually it will get them anyway.

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

 

 

 

     Cushings was relatively rare 20 years ago in my area.. As was laminitus unless the horses or ponies were exposed to sugar rich feeds or busted into the feed bin or on grass.. 

It's always been around. Was only about that long ago they came up with a name for it. Same with foundered ponies. Have been around since first 2 ponies stepped off of the ark. Old joke says there are only 2 kinds of ponies-those that have foundered and those that will.

You are correct in the increase in laminitis and founder in bigger horses though. That can be blamed on modern vaccines and dewormers.

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

YUP.. Your right it is a direct reflection upon people.. It's exactly what I said..

Then clarify, Good people. The kind that are good horsemen. The kind we all like to work for, tend to have good horses. When a bad one gets in their barn, next time you see it it's either good or it's gone. These kind of people consider it an insult to their horsemanship to have one that doesn't stand. Most of these people are unfortunately dead.

OTOH we have the others who are growing by leaps and bounds. The ones who really should give serious consideration to finding a different hobby. These people couldn't train a horse to eat carrotts. Usually all their horses are bad. If a good one has the misfortune to wind up on their farm it doesn't take them long to ruin it.

As I said, is a direct reflection upon the people.

Another big red flag for me is folks who say they can't get anybody to come out there. Every single time I've ever heard that I've always learned pretty quickly there's a real good reason nobody wants that work. Anybody who says that now I don't waste the time. Isn't worth my turning the key in the truck.

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

          

 

All of the supposed bad horses have given me no problems from day 1.. They all stand perfect with no issues..

 Well crying out loud you're only trimming most of them! How much trouble do you expect in 10 minutes of work?

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

  Never had to yell at 1 of them. And I don't believe on beating a horse.. Never have..   Back before I knew better I did reprimand a horse that had kicked 3 people just the day before I got there.. Was a 6month old filly.. I gave it a few yells and shuck the lead..  Problem solved.. 

I don't beat on them either. Is not worth the wasted effort. Kicking is a different story. You ever see a horse kick another horse? They can fire with enough force to kill a man. What does the one who gets kicked do? Just trots off and eats from a different pile. I couldn't hurt one if I tried. For that reason They will NEVER EVER get higher than me in the pecking order. They try to kick me I try to kill them. They don't try it again.

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

 

 

  
 

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

Your response to these posts just confirms more of what I see everyday..   You can read all about it in any of the journals on horse shoeing from back in the day. Wheelright and Blacksmith series or really any of them..   To still be having the same problems over and over and for hundreds of years.. It tells me something is wrong with what is being taught..  I don't want to be part of the problem.. I'm always in search for the cure or at least a more holistic way of treating the horses.. 

And what do you propose to do about ignorance, owner neglect, people having horses who really can't afford them? The industry is in a shambles. If you can solve any of those issues you'll be in a league with King Solomon. Jumping into bed with the parasitic self appointed gurus who profit off of the ignorant and gullible is not the answer.

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

As to the book.. I'm glad you liked it..    

If you like that book (which I have not read nor will I be buying a copy).  Try Equine Podiatry..  If you like that kind of Lab text or case study then its right up your alley.. So is the stuff by Rick Redden.. 

Not a big Redden fan either. Early on he had some interesting ideas but over the years has gotten more and more whacko. He's another one who should stay on his side of the hairline.

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

  

I have seen the same thing with Farriers and Veterinarians dismissing the difference between traditional trimming/shoeing techniques and a proper barefoot trim..

Really What i do is Observational trimming..  Yup.. I coined it myself..    I observe what is there and then remove what would naturally be worn, or broken off in ideal conditions.. While the shape of a naturally made hoof in nature is the best in the North east there are to many variables to getting the same results with defined sole callus.. Much more in line with what would happen in Nature but again I can't do a natural trim as again.. I am the one doing it..  Human intervention isn't really natural..

Ah Hah!!! Was waiting for that one! Sole Callous, Natural BS buzzword. No such anatomical structure It doesn't exist. It's a figment of Robert Bowker's fertile imagination. Read stuff written before 1990 you'll not see any such term.

Observational is your designer term? Sounds very nice. I usually do the barn aisle trim myself although sometimes I'll switch it up and do the hitchrail trim. When I was on the track I did the box stall trim which I favored over the shedrow trim. I might even have a picture of me somewhere doing to corn crib trim. Good grief it really is getting higher and deeper around here

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

  

 

Not sure you have noticed..  But "Natural Barefoot trim's"  are really a play on words.

Yeah I mentioned it already. I used the term "sophistry"

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

  The only "Natural trim" is one done in nature under ideal conditions on wild roaming horses.. 

There are wild heard's that don't have great feet.. They are land locked with human intervention or I should say interference..

And the feral hoof studies that became the foundational basis for the natural BS dogma have been proven to be flawed. They give themselves an out by saying it's ever evolving and constantly changing. If you don't like it it's because you don't understand it. If it doesn't work it's because it wasn't done properly, on and on. At my age I have a very low tolerance level for bovine excrement.

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Traditional farrier work is like Western medicine..  Fix it after the fact..    Barefoot trimming when applied properly is the simplest way to get to a healthier foot.. More like eastern medicine of not letting the problem happen to begin with.. 

You're assuming facts not in evidence. Some horses need shoeing some don't. What gives you this crazy belief that everything is lame?

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

I also think you misunderstood the reason why I posted those links..  It's to further ones education.. 

I would be happy to change what I do if something came along which I found was better..  

So far the result I get far exceed anything I have done previously and after 28 years the results are pretty impressive.. Thicker soles, thicker hoof walls (even on TB's) more hoof mass for a smaller hoof size.. Straighter hoof walls with very little flairing if any..  Heel mass is increased all on it's own while the tissues get fuller/healthier internally..  Nearly no toe distortion and well .. Just plain old Happier horses..

Is really no good reason you shouldn't have had that anyway. If not up to a certain point...you were doing something radically wrong from the get go.

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

 

Anyhow, I think we all are where we are supposed to be..  I personally will give up shoeing if I thought for a minute I was hurting a horse just for the sake of putting a shoe on.. Don't take that the wrong way.. Some horses need shoes..  Some horses feet are so bad that without shoes they are gonners.. ( was it the shoes or the horse, Egg/chicken) 

Don't forget the competitive disadvantages you put them at in the various competitions they participate in. Yes they've raced ran and jumped barefoot. Do they win anything? Not really to speak of.

City carriage horses, Amish buggy horses, Drafts, Just about any animal that works for a living. Not going far without shoes.

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 

 

 

By the way.. I shared links that offer information..  Had nothing to do with debunking traditional farrier work..   Post up some links to farrier sites that you like and can help with more information in line with what you like. I'm always open to learn more.. 

,Well, Most of the horseshoers sites these days are dead. Go on them you can hear crickets chirp. Seems everybody has abandoned forums for facebook these days.

I'm also not sure if Glenn approves of that as I know there are certain sites he doesn't want mentioned on here. I used to have mine in my signature line and it got removed with the new format. Can't get it back on.

I'll send you some on a PM

46 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said: