metalmangeler

You can repost it if you want, I thought it should be here as this is where I send people who I meet at shows etc. Also I am not on the face book page.

The plan is to do a workshop on fabricating hardy hole tools. This will take place at Pat's shop. We are not planning to charge, for the workshop however Pat and I plan to offer the tools that are made perhaps by you for sale most will be $10 each, this should cover the costs I think. I plan to make the following tools, hot cut hardy, cold cut hardy, fuller, swedge, turning forks, hardened fuller, hardy from air hardening steel, spring swedge with alignment pins, this tool I think will be very helpful at the Jan. meeting so will not be for sale until after that. I also hope to make a forming swedge for cabinet pulls. Also plan to bring an example of a hardy hole on a makeshift anvil so most can see that these are not something outside the range of tooling desirable for most all who are moving into the craft. If you have come to a few meetings you can see that this is an full plate. these tools will not be made traditionally I think you know what I mean. ( I am not debating what that means.) I plan to make use of the welder and drill press, and strikers. The plan is to start at 6:00 on Friday the 16 in the eve. and be finished by 9:00. If you show up late a lot of this stuff will be self explanitory when you see it. The idea is tooling up a starting shop without breaking the bank or spending months just making tools. I guess we will see if we can pull this off.

JME I hope I did not come across as negative regarding your tongs, you jumped in and made tongs...... this is great and no doubt you will get better if you keep it up. You are light years ahead of the people who never start because they might not do it perfect. I have some light tongs I made from 3/8 round i know over 16 years ago they are still going strong. I don't use that steel now but it obviously worked. I hope my comments were seen as helpful not critical that is my intent, sometimes hard to know on the internet.

I see you tried the rebar and then moved on, the most valuable thing you use in the shop is your time. barring the rediculous I try to use good steel if I am investing my time into a tool. Also keep in mind that quality steel will hold up better when you do not do a perfect job making the tool. There are people who really enjoy making a useful item from scrap, that is fine and might be your personality. I just thought I would put in how I view steel selection, esp. for tools. When I use scrap for tongs it is coil spring, or similar. Others like to make tongs from mild steel so they can cool them when hot as in red with out as much risk.

As observant as I am I just noticed this was from back in March, no doubt this is all from so long ago the OP probably is no longer looking this thread over.

Is the break at the point of the contact with the vice I think putting it in the vice during heat treatment is not helping you.

I normally heat treat my H13 letting air cool from 1850f by setting on a non heatconductive surface with the business end in air then in tempering try to bring the struck end up to near 1500 and get the working end near 800f this should make the tool not so hard on the struck end and yet hard on the working end. I don't water quench during heat treatment of H13. I have used water to cool during use of these tools but I think the practice is not a good idea, and likely damages the tools.

having the grip farther from the rivet allows for more range of grip especially with the grip being rather small in a lot of ways a pickup tong, this allows for the stock to change size as forged without changing tongs. Also if lacking resources less tongs in the shop.

drop a hot bar on wood it will start to burn. Likey will go out when you pick it up though, you would want to have a bucket of water and not have places where hot steel can fall that you can not access.

normally start around 9:00 am

Hello I met you this afternoon, looks like you are more into knives than I, you saw a few of mine, likely none of them have near the time you are putting into yours. Coil spring traps are a more recent design than you are looking for. you would want a long spring, maybe one you hand forged. It is good to see some new faces. Mark

I sell a few knives at my booth, the fair tells me that my customers need to keep their purchases (knives) in a sealed bag or box until they leave the fairgrounds. I doubt anyone will bother your leatherman, likely 30% of AK men carry one and you are not getting on an airline. I think you will be ok bringing some blades in in a bag or in your pack if you have them in a sealed bag in a pack you should be fine, I should be able to open them in my booth without any issues, we just might need to be discrete as to the timing of opening them so the wrong people are not upset. You will not want to open them on the fair grounds in general. security is not using metal detectors or such and I am sure there are a number of consealed carry coming through, but it is private property and they are explicit about guns and knives. The pictures of your knife on the other thread did look pretty nice by the way. Hope both of you have a good trip. Mark

If you bring a knife on the fair grounds have it in a sealed package, I bag the ones I sell and then tape them shut otherwise security might take them, not such a good thing after you put a bunch of time into making one.

I think Tom Wallace used beach coal part of the time, as I recall he was not impressed by it but it did the job when he did not have better. He lived in Homer.

Anvils are difficult here if you don't want to buy new. You could weld a cap on you RR track flush with the top and slightly over size then use that as the top for and anvil, turn the rail upside down and you will have a larger flat surface using the cap you welded on to stablize it. If you weld on a box of 1" square you can have a hardy hole as well. Look in the knife making section here in the lessons part Rich hale shows a make do anvil from a round stock drop. Any heavy steel will work. a flat spot is nice, you might have a couple things to use so you can get the different parts of your anvil just not all in one block.

You are making some nice looking knives. I have been doing shows for nearly 20 years now, I never think I am ready. There is always stuff I wish was done I could bring, now I just go knowing I am not totally ready, and it is ok. Hope your show goes well for you.

I just saw this, I will be praying for a complete recovery. Glad to hear things are looking better.

I am not sure about your dovetail problem, I would guess just not a good enough fit. I would try upsetting hot. you will want the far end tight and the heat in the close end to be upset to size. I guess this is clear as mud.

    I have been getting my steel from Kelly Couples I seem to have lost my contact information I hope to find it again as he has always been good to me. Mark

I have ordered my steel for pattern welding from outside, 1080 and 15n20, I think they are easier than some of the others so I am just keeping it simple at this time. As you know knives are more of a side item for me.

Res; it would be good to attend meetings as you get oppertunity, tongs come up from time to time. Mark Aspery included some tong work in the clinic this summer. There is of course a ton of info here on the subject as well, also on youtube though I find you will need to filter what is good from what is not.

With Greatland it is sometimes hit and miss on what they have on hand, they do use 4140 for some of the project they fabricate so they try to have a sellection on hand I have bought 5/8 and 1/2 from them. Larger than that might be a bit much for hand drawing reigns even more so without a solid anvil.

I like 4140 for tongs, for workshops or such we often use scrap, springs, potato digger bars, basicly a spring type steel. My main thought is that I can make a lighter tong also I can have more forging errors in my tool and not have it fail. That said many many good tongs are made from mild steel.

     Weld Air in Wasilla has steel, or Greatland welding on the Palmer Wasilla Hwy.

If you come by at the fair I should be able to demo a pair of tongs and maybe rough out a blade. I will plan on bringing something that will work as blade stock. Maybe you are leaving the blade world and we can do something else. Mornings on the weekdays will be the time with the least distractions, but come by when you can. Mark

Hello AK I have not been following iforge lately as too busy. Anyhow I was recently set up next to Krissy and kin at the Girdwood forest fair. My daughter Esther was out at Tanalian about the same time. you may have met her, she said she ran into someone out there who was interested in blacksmithing. I plan to be set up at the fair this year, if you come to the fair and find my booth be sure I know who you are I do demonstrations there, I can modify it to help you. know what you would like to see, tools, hooks, or what ever, remember I will be somewhat limited in the tooling I will have there but am still somewhat versitile. Mark

I am not sure about the oil, seems like the whole thing is oiled.

The bottom port to the rear of the hammer on my hammer has nothing in it. It is worth remembering that these hammers were being "improved" on a regular basis so what you might see on one might have changed on the next. Improvements are normally good, and mostly move in the right direction, I just think they tend to come much quicker in a small shop than a large factory, especially if the designer and labor are the same.

The exaust will have oil in it so running it to a bucket rather than breathing it seems like a good idea to me. I am not sure about the valve leak, if it works I would go with it. you were wondering about running air pressure earlier, I adjust down for certain types of work, sometimes clear down to like 60# this slows things down and of course lightens them up, helps control for say using crown dies to forge leaves. less likely to chop clear through. Also I assume you realize you can disconect the throttle  and set the throttle at a constant setting this can be of use sometimes as well.