metalmangeler

Frosty, Cheryl told me you came by while I was playing hooky. if I remember I will bring the tools to do the leaf to the next meeting.

no one has mentioned it is nice and stronger to have your jaw thicker at the boss tapering as you go, rather than the other way.

I typed this stuff last night then on the way to bed thought, this is not really likely to work. Thomas Powers mentioned the need for power, also with people hitting spring swedges by hand there is a tendency to not hit square, this makes the top die swing, likely smudging the result you are looking to achieve. You can avoid some of these problems by making a spring that needs to be opened to use i.e. you pry open the swedge to insert your work these will then suck out heat from the surface the very part you want to work or you could make a guided tool more time consuming to make.

       I mentioned earlier the other type I forge I really think they would be much more doable with hand held tools, I will be demonstrating at the local fair for awhile, if Frosty shows up with a camera I will forge one with that method he likely can put the pictures up here. It makes a different type leaf but making something that is achievable with what you have to work with is often better than having a good plan that you cannot do for some reason. (lack of controlled power, say the press or power hammer)

You are describing your setup, as I stated earlier you will need to do a set up before you can use your swedge or the end shape will not look like a leaf. You need to make the tip and the stem before you texture the leaf or you will end up with textured piece that is not leaf shaped. I think you will find that just cutting your veins in with a chisel will be more realistic than using the grinder. If your setup is good and you should be able to do it quickly and easily on a round edge of your anvil or something like that you should not need any concavity in your die. You can test a setup by doing it then just pound the setup flat you should have a leaf shape just no texture.

One of the problems people have making dies is they leave out steps they normally do in making a piece just making the last die in what should be a set of dies or tools, or in your case I think you might be trying to leave out steps you would do with your anvil when making leaves, just doing the last step with the die.

The 2 methods I have used are a spring swedge, you will want to do your setup prior to using this tool as it will be only for your double texture not for the shape that comes from your setup. the other method and my favorite is to use a set of crown dies on the power hammer this could be hand done with a bottom fuller crowned both directions and a hand hammer that matches. again you will want to do the set up separately.

I use what ever tool in the shop I think will help me, I even use modern steels........in both my tools and products.

I you twist and do not forge to thin then grind to get end thickness then that is one way the star pattern is made. just a thought.

Frosty is right if I got that anvil here for the asking $6 per pound I would be happy. Looks like a really nice anvil.

Likely the OP has already done what ever he was going to do, I would change his list to either flat jaw or farrier tongs for the 1/4 x 1 as the 1/4 tongs would work well on all 1/4 thick stock and often I grab stock from the side. If you know you will be on the end most of the time then the box jaws are better just a thought.

Normal cable won't give you the contrasts you will see using different steels especially the types chosen for contrast such as in the post directly above this one.

Busy I am trying to get ready for our next show. Rebecca had a birthday. We got an order for a dozen of our cheapest knives. Hoping to go dip netting soon. No real excuse for missing the show though. PM me your cell number and I will text you some pictures of Rebecca's art pieces she sold at the botanical garden a couple weeks ago.

How did the art on fire show go?

You could up grade those hooks the frying pans are hanging from Looks good I normally do not like people in my forge, so you are doing better with the PR. Looks like the items turned out pretty well.

I find it confusing when ever someone says they are looking for a skinner. Years ago I did a lot of trapping, and a fair amount of hunting, to my mind a skinner should have a well rounded tip, this style of knife would be used for bear, beaver and such, the rounded blade being used for fleshing and skinning at the same time, the rounded tip saving you from making holes. The knife  I liked for fox lynx and such was a slim blade with a sharp tip, the blade being about 2.5 inches long. a couple years ago I started making a knife a I call a detail knife, I made it specifically because there are so many people using the knives with the throw away blades which are quite brittle this knife was made for skinning bear toes, it works pretty well for splitting lips and turning ears and such, this has a very pointy profile, and short blade, like 1.25-1.5 inches long.

    It seems like any knife anyone ever used to skin any type animal is called a skinning knife. most of what I see called skinners are what I would call a hunting knife not really a special purpose knife more of an all around tool you could use for skinning and field dressing an animal. A skilled person with a good hunting knife should be able to skin and field dress including cutting into packable sized loads  a moose or elk or deer with out resharpening or using any other tool. Obviously if you had a saw or axe with you so much the better.

  IMO the knife posted by the OP might be pretty fun to try, I would think it should work pretty well as a skinner, for field dressing large game or probably skinning beaver types, i would not like it as a capeing knife as I think I would have trouble skinning ears, and such I do not think it would work to well for skinning toes either as you would not be able to reach in the small area with the wide blade tip.

Ben if you make the holes farther apart on the non jaw paralles you should get more range of jaw movement with the same hand movement.

As Thomas said cool before they get to critical heat and you should be in good shape.

I think experinced farriers should be able to handle good tongs ok. One thing to remember is that maybe 90% of the farriers who go to school are not shoeing as a job 5 years later, so when you are selling tools to farriers a significant portion of your sales are likely to people with limited skills. You could offer 2 lines light ones that require good care and another of forgiving ones, or if you get a chance look at a pair of Dennis Manning's farrier tongs, I think they are made of mild steel, but are very well thought out regarding stress areas the ones I have seen were really light and long lasting.

Considering how you are doing I would expect you will be able to sell your tongs, you will need to be able to make them quickly if you hope to make money. Farriers will pay more than blacksmiths as a rule. They really like shiny I would let the looks of the tools speak for itself. I have not worked on making these type tongs, but I think you should be able to make a double fuller tool with a stop that you could use under a power hammer really should not add much if any time to making a pair of tongs. One of the things I have heard over the years is that some of the people making tongs for farriers started out making them from higher carbon steels then later went to lower because the buyers tended to cool over heated tools in water then break them, it is unfortunate as better steel can be used for lighter tongs.

in the thread Alaska groups like 2 down from here Mr.B is looking for smiths in your area, send him a PM

I think the purpose is that stylized tools sell better. This is a legitimet purpose if you are selling tools.

I bet Jay's son knows a lot more about it than I ever will.

Might think about 1045 should move easier under the hammer, not quite as good but I would think it should work well enough. Less $$$$ for the steel. easy to heat treat. In production with a small hammer (50# LG) moving easier should help in getting out product, make a prototype see if it is the 1045 will do. You need to do a few prototypes to see how much time and material it will take and to start to sort out how to tool up for the job anyhow. If he is doing the marketing and handleing and you are just forging the head I would think you will need to make them for around $40 if he is selling them at the mentioned price point, so you would need to spit out at least 3 per hour including heat treatment. He will need to have a fairly large order to make this worthwhile for you. Going from one offs to production might not be how you are made, or it might be really good for you but it will be different and take a different mindset. Just how I would look at it.

I think maybe Jay Sharp got the modern farriers headed in the direction of the shoulder on their tongs, I think he was a following champion tool designs.

They do look nice and I think you are really doing a great job Ben.

I remember maybe 30 years ago I was in a small local horseshoe forging competion, I had a tent stake I was using as a bob punch for my clips. One of the other guys thought it was some specialty tool with the hook there to protect my hand if I lacked enough control to keep from hitting my hand.

I sometimes use center fire brass, prefire the primers by heat under a plate so they do not fly into an eye, then seat them like for reloading.

You can fire .22 brass with heat also, then you do not end up with the dent in the rim, pull the bullet first of course and set up so they don't end up in your eye.