Borntoolate

we could almost start a dedicated apiary section since beeswax is something useful in the blacksmith shop????  

Glenn?  

The honey is a bonus!

I have noticed that when finishing a point at the far edge it goes way faster and actually finishes the job with hit turn.   Whereas hit hit etc just makes it last forever, is not as neat etc.     The heat sucked out of the metal is a big deal due to the piece being thin.    But I think one could take Brain's comments above and think in terms of this example that I suspect we can all identify with and see where our brain then end up?   I suspect it would be hit turn?   Seems like if it is good for finishing a point or maybe even necessary then it should also apply everywhere else. 

also, when you hit are you HIT-ting or are you tap tapping.   One solid hit requires a turn perhaps.   Wheras tap tap doesn't.   But then heavy stock can take hit hit hit without needing a turn?    Acchh!   So many variables.

I have also used the hit hit method myself and I think I have done this when I am really working something fairly thick where I probably don't have the hammer/tong control I need for hit turn (or at least don't beleive I do). But I always notice the sooner I can get to hit turn the quicker things go.

Some evenings after work it's really more about HITTING something!

I tell everyone that the blacksmiths of old made everything that was made of metal, at least the first one.     Let's not even talk about all the tooling!!!    Anything that was first time made was made by the blacksmith.  

So just wow.

Many forget that we were the origonal Hardware stores. if you needed it, we had to make it for you

looks great!    I am still eating smoke with no chimney!

Towards the end of this post I have some pics on how I shut mine down.

http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/30981-first-time-using-coal-need-help/

I just try to get the coke off the top separated from the coal on the sides.   Make sure the Coke is broke up enough so it goes out in minutes.    Golf ball size max give or take.   Spread thin, not in a mound...     Yeah and don't stir up the bottom.  Get used to dumping most of that next time you start the forge. 

If you wanna make knives and tomahawks you prolly need to get a partner to strike for you.

Keep up the trial and error as well.   We all learn by mistakes.   Sometimes we have the benefit of a teacher beside us to point them out to us as we make them.  They can instruct us on the finer points and the why real time.    Other times we need to make them and then reflect and critigue ourselves as well as look to others and ask questions in order to improve.   BUt I think blacksmithing requires trial and error (Mistakes) in order to learn regardless.     Personally I enjoy the journey of learning.   These days when I try something that does not work I log it as learning and just add it to the file in my head.

Yesterday I was making some feet for a boot scraper.   These feet needed holes in them to screw to a wood deck.   I punched one of the holes in one of the feet into a section of foot that was not quite wide enough and my final punch done too cold.   It split the edge of the hole and made a crack.     On another I did not get the slug out fully and was not wanting to make another crack so I reheated.    I tried to drive the slug out too hot and ended up with a raggedy push through (not sure how to explain, no shear on the plug).  

Anyway this was all fine.   I learned two more things NOT TO DO!  Mistakes are great as long as you learn from them!    They also allow you to ask better questions when you do get with someone whos knows stuff as well as what to watch for.   I sometimes go back to videos to specifically see how they handle a very specific strike, heat, set-up etc....

Could you post a video of the chicken like miming?   IT's been a long day at work and I am feeling a bit dizzy.   I think a video of chicken like miming would be excellent just now.   

Otherwise cool video.  

I also like the oldies in my shop.   Well I heard the Beatles and assumed oldies anyway...

I pondered making a flatter like yours but felt all the heavy abuse would bust the weld in short order.   But sometimes I think too much.    BUt I asked everyone to pitch and buy me a flatter fro Christmas if nothing else.   And so it happened!

There is so much to know that it is hard to answer your question without knowing what you already know.  I am looking to visit Tennessee for a vacation.  Maybe I could drop by if you could tell me a great place to catch Walleyes?

well now you know what it is but what this thread needs is a pic.  

Pardon me, but what is a fire ring and if it's a ring, why is it square?

I think I might know what you are talking about but a pic would be nice??

yeah I wanna see some fire to.    Is that first pic called solid steel round anvil in a bucket?    of cement

We touched on some of this in the Jan 1, thread by Kogan. I might mention that there are four crappy fires that I can think of, off hand: clinker fire; hollow fire; low fire; wide, spreading fire. A clinker fire displaces coke and "chills'" the blast. A hollow fire may look good on top but is oxidizing underneath, so you get heavy scale and low heats. A low fire is the opposite of a deep or high fire, the latter desirable. A wide spreading fire is not compact. The fire should be pulled together and coned with green coal. A wide fire may be used for heating something big like, say, a shovel pan, but not for straight stock heats.

Thanks, thats another way to look at it.

I live in Southern Lousiana.    It is humid most all the time.   I keep paper in my shop from junk mail.   No shiny stuff.   I find, especially in the heat of humid summer than even paper in my shop can burn poorly.    So I cheat.   It works and it uses, for the most part just extra stuff I have around.   I have a wood shop so I band saw small left over pieces of wood into small pieces.   Sometimes I split them small on the hardy.    I also sift the dust out of my coal.   Prolly don't need to but I do.   So I have plenty coaol dust.   

So I take a humid junk mail envelope to start with.    Add some wood bits.   Pour in some coal dust.   Lay out some humid paper on the forge.   Douse all with a sprikling of charcoal starter fluid.   Rap it tight and light it off.   

Turn the blower slow and start piling up the coke around the edges trying to keep a flame.     Sprinkle some coal if needed and slowly let it all catch fire.   I can get a decent fire in minutes.   A mature fire takes longer but this never fails me.   I only fail when I try to short cut the paper or mostly when I have some of that shiny paper.    "Avoid the SHINY PAPER"

I also use the coal dust to pour over a mature fire to make a cave.     It's smoky and disrupts the fire but helps use up the dust and makes a good roof.

I just do what I do.   It don't make it right.   But I don't feel bad about using the charcoal starter.   There are many times in deep humid summer when there has been little rain that paper is a bit stubborn to light.  I could baby it but why...?   I go with the thinking that the blacksmith uses what he has on hand.

This is a fascinating thread that demonstrates the creativity of the folks who visit this site.   There are a lot of different anvil stands made from many different materials.   I assume much of this is just making do with what is available as well as some folks who work to acquire specific materials to accomplish a specific outcome.   Anyway BRAVO to all!  

My anvil stand is something that I am continually critical of and also one that I continually wish to modify or tweak but also one that works.    Changing/improving it is a balance between using the anvil and making a new stand to support it.   I tend to create more scale around it than work to make it better.  But then... I am basically lazy.

A drive to Buddy Leonards would be worth it if you get enough coal and can haul it.   Just make sure he has it before you go.   My last trip was for 800 lbs.    On the other hand there are probably better sources even than that??   But I don't know them.     I am not a huge user but I would go for a BIG delivery at the right price.   I like to buy in bulk.  The price is always better...   as long as you plan to use it.    Buddy may not have the Bulk price exactly but it was the best I could find nearby.    Online the shipping is a killer.

When all I have left is Coke from a previous burn I sometimes throw a bit of coal in about half into filling the firebox with coke.   Somehow this either helps there to be some flames or maybe it just allows you to see some smoke that let's you know that you are making progress.     Usually there is plenty of coal mixed in with the fused coal/coke chunks that this is not necessary.   here is a pic that might help

There is a video in my website (click here) that shows me working out of a coal forge. It is a Buffalo patent forge with electric blower and damper; it will easily burn steel if I don't pay attention. Nothing I'm doing in this video qualifies as "one-heat" but there are other processes that I can do easily in one heat cycle if the proper heat is taken. There are also a plethora of videos on this site and YouTube showing other smiths taking good heats and getting a lot of work completed in a short amount of time - whether it's one heat or more.

So the vid shows you pulling out what looks like a very nice heat.   But the video does not show how to do this.   This is typical of videos.   No one really wants to watch a piece sit in the fire.

I think part of the problem is that it's difficult to show the details of what you see in a good fire using video.  The colors and details are hard to see in a video.  

And as I ponder my own question and think about the 4 or 5  different coal forges I have used there are a lot of variables with just the forge itself, air flow, fire pot size and shape, hand vs electric blower not to mention so many other variables already mentioned.    I am not even sure it is truly possible to answer my question without considering all these variables.     

I guess I have been a little frustrated in my lack of knowledge and experience.   After two years working this as a part time hobby I feel I am beginning to learn how to operate my own forge.   My inability to do this in the past has cost me a lot of time heating and extra hammering.   So any way we can help others get this quicker is a good thing.   As others have said elsewhere you probably need to find someone that knows how to do it and how to teach it first hand and not in words.

I attempted a forge weld on some spring steel.   It was coil spring.   It was about 1" of of steel bent back on itself.   I heated, fluxed and then heated to weld heat.    It was just barely sparking.   I hit it and it crumbled.    What did I do wrong?

Did you miss the reply's to this same question you asked on 26 Dec? where are the photos so we can see?

I took an unknown material but it was a coil spring.    My sons friend dropped it by.  Prolly from a small car...     It was ~1/2" diameter.   I bent about 3/4" back onto itself.   Fluxed, heated to just barely sparking and hammered.   Basically it came from together into a crumbly splatter.    What did I do wrong?   What happened?   I may have hit it a little bit hard?   It wasn't a tap....  But I did not expect it to just fly apart.   I am not a forge welding expert by any means!

so i have heard we should bank a bunch of coal around the firepot.   So that means semi large piles of coal piled up on the sides.   This makes coke.  And we should wet it so it doesn't burn away...  Then the coke formed ...  Which we rake into the fire and bank back up.  This also provides a wall of insulation on the sides to keep the heat in.  Well this works..    

But I find this to be a lot of bother and waste and it makes it harder to see the fire.  So I say that realizing I don't know what I am doing.    Glenn mentioned the "fire ball".    That is a new term but I think it really has some useful meaning.    Glenn please xplain more!

Well, I have been experimenting with not banking but rather just sprinkling enough green coal on top of a hot fire every heat.  Or every other heat depending on how much metal you are heating.   I can even sprinkle more where needed in order to keep a mature fire hot on top and high enough to put the metal into for quick heat both top and bottom.   There is always enough flame to burn away the smoke.    My forge "area" is cleaner meaning I don't have mounds of coal banked all around and I have morespace.  

The size of your coal makes a difference.

I don't have coal on the sides of my forge fusing together into a brick.   I don't have to poke and prod and disturb my firepot to use the banked coal as fuel by dragging and breaking it apart.  Usually, for me this disrupts the whole fire and you have to wait for it to recover.   Poking, prodding, and tweaking the fire pot which cools everything and can also make the coal stick to the metal and cool it is no longer necessary. 

I can see the "ball".  I think???   I can control the ball better???   I can keep the ball white hot if needed, easier..  Glenn, tell us about the "ball"

I ain't gonna mince words so here goes.   IF YOU CAN'T MAXIMIZE THE HEAT WITHOUT BURNING... TOO MUCH... IN YOUR COAL FORGE THEN ALL THIS "ONE HEAT" TALK IS POINTLESS!

in my humble opinion there is not near enough talk, pics and so forth about how to "manage" your coal forge in order to deliver those awesome heats that allow you to "Start out" with enough heat to really make things happen with the hammer and anvil. 

Now you can peck away at things at a mediocre safe heat but this makes life hard (and progress slow) when all you may need is a small tweak to how you "OPERATE YOUR FORGE"  in order to really be able to move hot steel, at maximum temp, with minimal effort. 

Brian has said it doesn't take minutes to heat metal but rather seconds.   Brian if I have quoted you wrong please correct me.   But I am beginning to agree though understanding how to do this is not something I have seen on this forum. Doesn't mean it isn't here.  As I experiment and go through LENGTHY trial and error I am learning... Slowly....        But even if it is in this forum I bet it is NOT in an easily digestible form for most of us.   I recognize that it may not be easy to make this easily digestable.   BUT.   I challenge all of us to figure out how to make it at least more or less digestible... soonish.

Now there are always many variables.  This makes this subject hard to discuss.  But we really IMHO need to breach this subject.

I hope that this particular topic will become one of the threads that we send all new smiths too in order to learn about fire control and heat.   In other words "HOW TO OPERATE YOUR FORGE"!!!!

I have a few thoughts as a ~2 year amateur with some pics and  comments.   But it is late.   Rest assured I will be bringing this up some more...   Possibly often.

It's well past the time when I need to install a vent pipe.   I need some pics to get ideas from.    Please post away.   I would start us out but alas I have none.   :(

Pics should show the overall stack, the roof seal points if possible, how it's supported and just about anything you think someone could benefit from when they go to copy your design.

this is for the forge of course

I have a RR Spike claw bar that came with the house as well as a lot of other "stuff".    IT's about 5-6 feet long and weighs probably 40 pounds +/-.     Seems there are probably just spikes laying around?  Learn about all the other bits of RR metal parts and their composition and names.    Here is a link that has some info...

http://www.harmersteel.com/catalog/track-tools-accessories/rail-anchors-tie-plates/

If I recall the rail anchors are approaching or are well into the tool steel carbon content range (.55 Carbon or was it .8...???).   They are annoying to straighten by yourself.   Hardenable for sure.   What work I have done with spikes makes me think they are unpredictable.

I also made a folded over and welded hardy tool out of an anchor.  Folded over to add thickness.    I think this is what Thomas is referring to as ampersands...???   Like the unit V in the link above.    BUt there seem to be a lot of different shapes.