Jump to content
I Forge Iron

Borntoolate

Members
  • Posts

    661
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by Borntoolate

  1. Sounds like it might have been a bench for a specific purpose at first.  I heard Cobbler, Saddle making and leather in general.   Perhaps it was available or maybe seen in use by someone in it's original purpose and form.  THen someone needed to straighten nails and said why not use the cobblers bench.   And then someone got into leather work and said use the cobblers bench...  Depression era / fruggle people in general would use whatever they had for whatever they needed.

  2. So other than these power hammer and press guys it sounds like first off that the best hammer is one that the "hammerer" knows how to use accurately and that understands the various ways that a hammer can be used to move metal and also knows the effective ways to move metal AND has a plan for how to accomplish the overall task.   

     

    That was a long sentence....  

     

    Maybe not even a proper sentence...

     

    But in some ways it touches on how complicated I see this craft.  It is complicated because there simply is nothing else even remotely like it!   Which also makes it so fascinating!  AND FUN!    AND REWARDING!  AND FRUSTRATING!

  3. Old N Rusty is here (BTR).    He has a huge shop with all sorts of stuff to pound hot metal or mangle yourself with.   His power hammer scares me!   

     

    I am here (Baton Rouge) too but I mostly just dabble though I have learned a good bit and don't mind sharing what I think I know.   I have that day job, make a living issue...   

     

    Look up LAMA as well.   http://lametalsmiths.org/    A lot of their meetings are possibly closer to you than to me.  Depends on where in nawlins u are.

     

    What do you have to work with?  Forge?  Anvil?  Fuel type?  Location restrictions?   What do you mean "take this hobby as far as I can take it."?

  4. This was a different and awesomely informative forge welding video.  

     

    Prior to this I did not think you should let sparks come from the fire for very long.  I always thought burning was bad and that as soon as you saw sparks and burning that it was time to get the metal out.  He counts to 5.

     

    He said that he needs extra metal to burn away.  I always heard that upsetting was to keep the thickness I guess more due to hammering really hot stuff too thin.   I guess it's both then?

     

    I saw him lift the metal to see the sparks better while in the fire, shooting out from underneath.

     

    I saw him point the metal down into the fire.  I have often been told not to do this but rather to keep things level and make sure you have fire above and below.  Fire deep had too much oxygen and burns whereas fire above had just heat.  He seems to go for the heat verses go for the no oxygen heat.

     

    I did not see any reference or use of flux???

     

    His explanation of the scarfs and how they should fit was different than what I have seen.   BUt I am slow and dense at times so I may just have missed this elsewhere.    

     

    He showed how he quickly made a scarf.   I can do that!

     

    He showed how to lever one pice to hold the other piece and drop the tongs.   I can do that!

     

    Nice vid.  Thanks!!!!

  5. A properly ground rounding hammer with a squared flat face has more dies or surfaces available to forge with.
    I was going to link Brian's rounding hammer vid but he already did. One other thing that is pretty important but unsaid. Brian relies on a high level of accuracy in regard to where he hits the hot metal and with what specific part of the hammer face he hits with. So most any hammer has a lot of dies but if you can't hit accurately with all those dies then maybe it doesn't matter as much. So accuracy counts and having a plan counts even more perhaps.
  6. I think you could make one to see how it feels to do it. Then make as many as you think you need but do them all a little bit at a time.

    This may take a while but do part of a bend. Then make all the rest the same. Use the first as your go by. LAy them all side by side to be sure they are "similar". No need to be identical. Tweak them to similar before moving on.

    Then proceed to the next part of the bends. Progress through them step by step progressing to final product making and maintaining them similar as you go using the same approach for each. Same heat, same hammering / bending. This might take 5 or 10 heats each.

    When done you can probably tweak them cold as long as you stay close to similar as you progress.

    I find duplication to be an interesting challenge. I also believe it teaches you a lot about consistancy, hammer control, visual precision and all sorts of stuff. In the end "you will see" all sorts of inconsistencies. Others will see unigueness, hand made variation and art. As long as you don't screw it up to bad. :P

    Once again... think... SIMILAR not Identical

  7. My anvil height is actually set so I can do the "crotch hold" on a piece of metal. Brian talked about that and it wasn't far from knuckle high for me. And it seems to work. So I go with third hand = "crotch". comes in handy for me. No pain so far and I had tendenitis when I took up this craft.


  8. I found it useful to video the person learning then have them video you swinging the hammer correctly, its hard for someone to see what they are doing wrong, but can often see it when shown from a distance in a vid, and then have reference to watching you hammering correctly. Also is applicable for the correct stance when at the anvil, most I find either have a stiff legged stance or are over reaching


    Interesting idea. I was big into pool for a good while. I had an instructor come buy and the first thing he did was video me stroking the ball. He critically evaluated my stroke based on the various shots (draw, follow, break, soft, medium....etc). It was VERY useful and I learned what I had really wanted to learn (how to draw the ball) in about the first 15 minutes. With these days of smart phones and so forth this might actually be quite easy to do.
  9. Re-watching.. It is not all about the hammering. It has a lot about the heat. We talk a lot about one heat this or that. But when I see a vid I always see a vary good, near burnage... hot heat. Beyond the hammering we need to talk more about getting a good heat!!!!! And also how we don't lose the heat,,, by laying flat on the anvil and so forth

  10. Alec, that was an awesome explanation!!!

    But keep up with your home work. Schooling needs to be first.

    And,

    Thnank you. Very nicely stated.

    Brian, You are right. Alec says it better than you. You know so much, that you have learned by experience, that now seems obvious to you. When you say it parctically makes itself does not help us. Your challenge is to remember being ignorant and how you learned. Then, teaching us, the ignorant, how too... in words.... one on one... so we can make stuff like you do!

    Brian and Alec. Thanks!


  11. For all those non-tappers, draw a point on a 1 1/4 inch jack hammer bit in one heat, and then get back with us. Or better yet, do a longer taper on 3/4 inch stock where you change the side of the hammer you strike with from time to time.

    Borntoolate, Alec was hammering like that before he came to see me. Alec had more hammer experience than anyone I have ever worked with, and he got it from sharpening jack hammer bits with a 4 pound hammer before he came here in one heat. He was also the first and only student that forged the taper on a hammer drift in 5 heats with a 5 pound hammer. The starting material was 1 1/4 inch round 4140, and he almost 5 foot tall and weighed 88 pounds. Relaxing and letting the hammer do the work will enable anyone to hammer without hurting themself. Watch that young man throw a hand hammer or a sledge. He was striking with a 20 pound sledge at a class he helped me teach in Montana.


    You are quick Brian! The reason I did not mention any names was because I have to respect the skill of you both and so what I think of the "extra" taps is just what I think and neither right nor wrong. Probably more likely to be wrong! It's interesting that If you both, in my opinion, hammer in a vary similar way, including the tapping..... And this is prior to you and Alec linking up! Maybe there is more to this tapping than meets the eye?

    I watched a Blacksmith CD recently wherein the Blacksmith specifically called out the fact that he does not do extra tapping. That it is wasteful he said. However, there were a few extra taps thrown in here and there. But not many. So the guy who called out against it also had a few taps here and there. Don't recall the name.

    As for George's challenge/clarification I am still also a little confused too. I am not a great smith by any stretch so I feel a little out of place to challenge.... I do find I can swap my hammer face (the one we made) on the upswing so don't need the taps to do that. Is the tapping also a chance to rest just a little? This is perhaps implyed by your examples above with heavier stock? I will go back and look at you and Alec in regard to just hammer technigue since I am out of town and don't have access to my wee little smithy.

    What I see in your hammering is very deliberate, well thought out and not rushed but quite effective. It seems your tapping helps you accomplish that. But who am I to assume I know what you are thinking. I only know what I am thinking... at least part of the time. :blink:

    By the way, no offense intended, Alec and Brian. Alec, maybe you good give us your two cents on this.

  12. When students are first learning, they have an accuracy problem and they don't know where the metal is going, i.e., how the metal behaves under the hammer. Therefore, they use dinky blows because they're "closer to the work" with the hammer. If they pick the hammer up higher, they must get used to it and find out that they can be accurate with the heavier, higher lifted hammer blows.

    Demonstrating repeatedly is better than using words to explain. When the words "rhythm" and "speed" are used, they are not always fully understood. I have often told a student to hit harder, and he/she will hit with the same dinky blows, but with a speeded up TEMPO! I holler, "I said harder, not faster."

    Even "fast" is a murky word. It could mean tempo, or it could indicate the distance from A to B.

    I do a tai chi Short Form, and in the Opening, there is a relaxed, slow motion arm raising and lowering exercise. It is similar to the use of the hammer. I sometimes resort to having a struggling student do this movement and analyze it.


    Good point about the learning curve and dinky blows. They are warming up, learning some accuracy... and in some cases using a hammer for nearly the first time. So I'll need to be more patient.
  13. I Don't mind teaching what little I know. One of the things I see often is how people don't want to swing a hammer but want to sort of push it down with little short, sharp baby taps. This is not only ineffective but hard on a person.

    What do you tell people? Even after showing folks and explaining it's not a push it's a drop. Just lift it and drop it down. The only effort used is the lift. Try to catch the rebound to help the lift. Don't be afraid to hit the hot metal. To hit harder lift it a bit higher. Accuracy is more important than speed. Try to get a rythm going but don't hit unless you know what you are doing.

    Well above is some of the litany I go through. I still see that a lot of folks just migrate to the short baby taps. Any thoughts on how you get people past that?

  14. extra blows don't make sense to me. Though yes I do let the hammer rest/fall on the anvil and it taps or does a rapid fading chattering drum roll. I can also see me doing this at times when I am unsure. You get into a rythm then about mid hammer drop you get unclear what to do so the hammer drops on the anvil or maybe you tap it once, twice...

    I think some of this is learned by watching or learning from others. I have seen a few videos where this particular young person has had a good bit of training from one of the experienced folks on this site and I see the hammering is near identical. Including the extra taps.

  15. I have been asked to make a spoon and fork for a Christmas Present.

    I have hammered out the spoon end from roughly 1/8" plate. A Railroad spike serves as the handle which is now about 5/16 or better square. How would you join the two? I assume a forge weld or rivets. I also considered a collar and forge weld. Problem is my welding is not too great yet but I think I can manage if I get the joint right. I prefer a joint that I can assemble well enough such that welding involves only one piece (not having to put the two together for the weld).

    Any suggestions on how to make this joint up? Rivets seem a bit hard to do in such a thin handle. But I am open to everything including starting over. IF needed I could post some pics later today

  16. I have found that it is good to make many and all mistakes quite early. That way you can get a lot of learning in quicker. And... I am VERY GOOD at making many and all mistakes early.

    Actually my first set of tongs went pretty well.. other than they probably took me 3+ hours to make. I cheated and used a cut off hex head bolt as the rivet. This worked quite well actually. It was rusty scrap.

    On my second set I put them togther wrong like you did. It's interesting how one can make such a bone head move right in front of myself. By the way I had plenty of light! Then I riveted in triple so to speak. My tongs weren't together when heading the rivets and so I had an internal bulge in the rivet between the two tongs. This basically froze them up. So let's gride out another rivet! I also had to learn to make a rivet that I can actually insert into the hole (or vice versa perhaps). A cold rivet that fits in a cold hole doesn't necessarily fit in the same hole once heated. This is quite annoying trying to make go in! Then of course there was the time I just burned them up after all that work.... !!!! Burned right at the rivet hole! I also have ugly folded over rivets. They work but look like crap! My tapers need work and I tend to over hammer and make small tongs. So now I have several small and similar tongs when what I need is some bigger robust tongs. But I'll get there.

×
×
  • Create New...