Forge Welding with an OA Torch

[HWooldridge]

Some of you may have already done this but I have been doing a bit of forge welding with an oxy-acet torch. I was experimenting with making some small pendant crosses to be hung around the neck and didn't want to fire up either forge. I laid the 1/4" square stock where I wanted it and tacked it with the TIG, then clamped the torch in a vise near an anvil. I heated the assembly to red, applied gas forge flux and went back to heating with a slightly carburizing flame. The flux makes a bright yellow flame so you need a #3 or 4 shade for the eyes (I used a tinted face shield). Wait until you get a few sparks and go right to the anvil - one swat and it's welded. The result is not as clean as a scarfed weld but I've tried to break a few of these and they don't - so they are fine for jewelry and ornamental stuff. This is not economical for long runs but works fine for onesy-twosy jobs. Just another kink for the tool box...H

[Ed Thomas]

Hollis:

I never had any luck with it the few times I tried, but I see two key hints in your post that would have made the difference -- not having to figure out what to do with the torch, and the slight oxygen starvation. I'll keep your suggestion in mind, as I know it would have come in handy several times in the past.

One other idea: I have a gas saver and it is fairly handy. But awhile back I saw someone with a gas saver hard mounted with a foot pedal to actuate the gas valves. Sort of like glass bead folks use, I guess? Anyway, that might be the extra conveniece to make it worth using a torch in that fashion once in awhile. Just put the pieces in front of the torch, press on the gas pedal, let off when it's hot, and take it to the anvil. Hands free!

[HWooldridge]

Ed,

I did 11 little crosses today and they all stuck. I clamped the torch in the vise so all I had to do was manipulate the pieces and held them about 3 inches away from the flame cone so they could soak. When the temp is right, you will see a few sparks just like in a normal forge weld although I have to wear a green eye shield or it blinds me. I also can really vouch for Sure Weld from Mustad - it is a very good flux and I have taken to using it for everything. Welds I used to miss with borax or EZ Weld stick every time now. I don't know what's in it but it works.

[Glenn]

Sure Weld from Mustad - Where do you obtain that?

[HWooldridge]

Centaur sells it - it's one of their gas welding fluxes.

[Ed Thomas]

Hollis: That is pretty interesting. I guess I assumed that there would be too much free oxygen by that method. Now I'm going to have to try it sometime. Yet another helpful tool for the growing arsenal.

Glenn: It looks like Pieh Tool Co. also sells it.

http://www.piehtoolco.com/

Click on "Welding Compounds"

[JerryCarroll]

I "forge weld" often using my torch. I have a Harris set-up. I've watched others try to do light work without paying attention to the pressure settings and not do too good. I use a #3 tip and set both gauges at 3-5 lbs. and do just about any small stuff I want.I don't use flux. When I was working at the stamping plant it was common practice to fuse small splits in the mounting flanges on panels to stop them. An oversize flame would take a big bite outta what ever it hit. Like anything else, it takes practice to know how to set the flame and apply it.

[Ten Hammers]

I use acetelyne to weld most days in the shop. Butt joints mostly and if you have the joints right, no filler necessary. This is on lighter stuff
( < 1/4" ). Mig and acetelyne are intertwined for me. Both setups are within a couple feet from each other. I use whatever is needed for the situation. Cheap junk rod (Forney) is just like cheap junk wire (Forney). I use Harris E70-S6 mig wire and the same stuff for rod. Forney wire (stuff I get here anyway) plugs the rollers and the liner. It also makes inferior gas welds. I use .023 wire in the mig. This can also be used for really light ( I mean like gas welding # 14 non plated brace wire or other light stuff) filler rod. Just trigger some wire out and clip it. No flux is necessary for any of my acetelyne welding. The parent metal will cause you problems. Modern steel we get is manurealloy and who knows what is in it. MIG's fine normally but fusion welding with the torch likes fairly good steel. I gas weld through scale just fine normally. This isn't something that has overhead lift requirements. It IS production candlework. I have confidence in my welds. Candlework can be scary if you think about it. Drunk operator of the candle carries the holder to the outhouse and handle breaks, droppin the (lit) candle on some dry fuel source and bingo liability problem. I have confidence in my welds with acetelyne. If it really requires, I MIG and then finish up the weld with gas. TIG makes this unnecessary and TIG is the ticket really. I haven't made the investment just yet. Actually, all 3 (MIG, TIG and acetelyne) would make my business money. For now I'm getting along just fine with the MIG and gas welding. YMMV.

[Ed Thomas]

Jerry Carroll and Ten Hammers:

What Hollis was talking about was not O/A welding... fusing by puddling. He was talking about bringing pieces to welding temperature and fusing by forging. That is a bit trickier. The torch doesn't provide the same oven-surround that you get from a coal or gas forge. Bringing those small pieces to an even heat, and being quick enough to forge weld them, probably took some practice. I didn't know it was a viable method, actually.

I like the torch for welding also. I have a railing I'm supposed to do... okay, I admit it... it's for my mother... :oops: :oops: It is for curved exterior brick steps that one of my brothers did some time ago. I decided to hedge my bets for success by making a scrap model frame, but there is no easy arc welder plug access. By taking my torch set along, I had no problem at all welding a mockup.

For my purposes, the torch is much more valuable than my stick or MIG welders. That's why I was fascinated that Hollis was able to add one more option to this most useful tool.

[HWooldridge]

Just so everyone is clear on what I'm doing - I take two pieces that are already either upset and pre-scarfed or just laid across one another (like the crosses). I lightly tack the pieces in proper orientation with a TIG, then heat and forge weld using the torch for heat. This works well on real small stuff that loses heat quickly and is hard to align for a forge weld. I also use a cutting tip instead of a welding tip but a rosebud might be better. As Ed has mentioned, I think the trick is to get an atmosphere around the weld like what happens in a forge. I am also not trying to sell Sure-Weld but it is the only flux I've tried with this technique that works. I have also done round rings using O/A on 1/4 stock that closed at the scarfs and looked good. I would not use this on anything bigger than 3/8 but it's nice for a one-off project or some little items that are hard to handle.

[JerryCarroll]

:D This forum is great! You can learn as much from a missunderstanding as you can asking a question.
When I put pieces together with the torch I always add the hammer marks. Maybe that qualifies it as forge welding. :? Anyway, I haven't had any complaints---yet.