Rforgeiron Posted December 8, 2024 Share Posted December 8, 2024 Hi I’m 15 and I’m going to start knife making and forging. I’m a going to make a horizontal pipe gas forge. I’m using Castable refractory as an insulation. I’ve also decided to use a 100000 btu tiger propane torch as a burner. Is that ok? I also want to know where to put the torch should I put it inline with the forge, or vertical, or on an angle? Thanks for any input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted December 8, 2024 Share Posted December 8, 2024 Welcome from the Ozark Mountains. A lot depends on where in the world you are located. As far as the burner goes, it depends upon how many cubic inches the interior of the forge will be and the type of fuel. Personally I don't think it will reach welding temperature with that small of a burner. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.~ Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 9, 2024 Share Posted December 9, 2024 Since you want to make knives, I will assume that you want a good forge size for that work. So, to begin with, somewhere between a 1-1/2 gallon to 2 gallon container will serve you best. You could even get away with a coffee-can forge (1 gallon size), for your purposes, but I think it would make you feel a little cramped. On the other hand, a two gallon forge size may be a little hard to get as hot as you want, using any kind of propane hand torch. By the way, I tried to look up the torch you mentioned, and all of the offerings were insufficient for your purposes; not that they are not large enough, but because the kind of flames they produce are not intense enough. Yellow flames are for burning weeds--not working steel. The kind of hand torch, or dual fuel torch-head from Amazon.com, which you need to do the job at all, tends to produce a hard blue flame. You will want to position a single burner in the center of whatever cylindrical shape you choose, or two smaller burners one-third of the way from each end of the cylinder. You will also want position the burner, or burners, just above the floor; aimed facing upward and inward, to create good swirl, while the hot gases travel the maximum distance possible, before impinging on your knife blades. Remember to make the burner portal hole(s) larger than the flame retention nozzle on your torch-head(s), so that the flame can induce secondary air past the nozzle to both cool it sufficiently to keep it from melting (if it is brass), and to finish combusting the fuel gas, which an air/fuel torch or torch-head will not do completely, because none of them are designed to do that. But, do not make the holes so large that a lot of secondary air will be induced by the flame, or you'll just waste fuel. I would give about 1/8" all the way around the nozzle for air induction. So make the hole diameter(s) 1/4" larger the the nozzle diameter(s). If I knew what you have for tools, and how timid you feel, I could refine and extend my advice to you. For instance, I suspect that you are avoiding burner construction for lack of tools, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rforgeiron Posted December 9, 2024 Author Share Posted December 9, 2024 No I have enough tools for making a burner it’s just that a torch was kinda useful in mor than a forge. I’m not timid I live on a farm and I’ve worked with tools all the time just really wanted to start forging knives and other tools. I also live in a cold climate so I was also thinking about having a sfe indoor forge still tryna figure that out. Maybe I should go with coal vs gas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rforgeiron Posted December 9, 2024 Author Share Posted December 9, 2024 No I have enough tools for making a burner it’s just that a torch was kinda useful in mor than a forge. I’m not timid I live on a farm and I’ve worked with tools all the time just really wanted to start forging knives and other tools. I also live in a cold climate so I was also thinking about having a sfe indoor forge still tryna figure that out. Maybe I should go with coal vs gas? I think I’ll go with gas. The pip I’m planning on using is a pipe with a 8” diameter and 1/2” thick wall, it’s 2.5 ft long. And as I mentioned earlier I’m using castable refractory as insulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rforgeiron Posted December 9, 2024 Author Share Posted December 9, 2024 I like the sound of a ribbon burner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 9, 2024 Share Posted December 9, 2024 1 hour ago, Rforgeiron said: I’m planning on using is a pipe with a 8” diameter and 1/2” thick wall, it’s 2.5 ft long. There is no advantage, whatsoever, in using a thick walled pipe. Most people end up using old out of date propane cylinders, or the even thinner Freon cylinders; nothing more is needed. I appreciate the desire to have an air/fuel hand torch out of the deal. But have your considered that any well designed burner can be used as a hand torch just as easily as for an equipment burner? Just saw your note about ribbon burners; I think they are a fine idea, but not for a really small forge; think five gallon container, if you want to heat the forge with a ribbon burner. Of course, that can be supplied by a five gallon paint can just as easily as with a five gallon propane cylinder Your thick wall pipe sounds just about the right length to be the center column of an anvil stand; that way its thick wall becomes useful; especially if it is filled with sound deadening sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 9, 2024 Share Posted December 9, 2024 1 hour ago, Rforgeiron said: as I mentioned earlier I’m using castable refractory as insulation. That is fine. Home casters used castable refractory with about one-third Perlite for insulation for years, and we ran out casting furnaces at yellow heat for about eight hours at a time on five gallons of propane. You could do even better with a ribbon burner. If you don't already have your refractory, Kast-O-lite 30 doesn't need the Perlite added to be very insulating, light weight, and crack resistant; it is what most guys use to make a ribbon burner. Whatever castable refractory you employ, a little vibration will greatly increase your pleasure with the finished product; especially how well a ribbon burner will turn out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rforgeiron Posted December 11, 2024 Author Share Posted December 11, 2024 Thanks for all the help full advise I’ll use an old propane cylinder and a make a ribbon burner. Super excited can’t wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 11, 2024 Share Posted December 11, 2024 Many others here are into ribbon burners; do not hesitate to keep them advised of your progress, and ask them for help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 12, 2024 Share Posted December 12, 2024 Ribbon burners do not have flame retention nozzles; they have a steel plenum chamber, with a multi-holed flame surface, which is made of a thick refractory layer. In other words, you still need to buy or build a gas burner to attach to the plenum chamber. However, since a little positive pressure is a good thing, with a multi-flame plenum chamber (but a bad thing with a single flame retention nozzle) you can employ a fan driven burner; these are much simpler to "get right" than most people think naturally aspirated burners are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 17, 2024 Share Posted December 17, 2024 On 12/11/2024 at 7:59 PM, Mikey98118 said: than most people think naturally aspirated burners are This may seem to be an odd way to put this problem, but it is the central issue. If you look at building a burner, step by step, they are all simple. If you look at the finish project as something new and daunting, your anxiety will confuse the issue. Surprisingly, the more we learn the harder it gets to remember how any subject looks to beginners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted December 18, 2024 Share Posted December 18, 2024 Good Morning, R Welcome to this world. I know you are 15. You NEED to get a hold of Shawn at Front Step in Edmonton!!!! This recommendation is not spoken lightly!!! He also teaches Blacksmithing at N.A.I.T. You NEED to talk to a Mentor, before you start with your creating. You NEED to learn how to ask questions, before you tell us the answers. Walk SLOW, take LITTLE STEPS. Pay attention to our suggestions. You are starting a Journey that has no end, yes it is endless. There also is an excellent young Smith, Eathan, in Storme, Alta. Is that closer to you? Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted December 18, 2024 Share Posted December 18, 2024 Good Morning, I spelled it wrong, Strome, Alta Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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