breaking welds

[ironantlerforge]

I have several spring swages that I use under the power hammer that keep breaking where the weld is. It seems like the pressure of the hammer is too much for them. I re-weld them, heat the weld, and then allow it to cool slowly but they still break over time. I'm using the ones that Kain & Sons sells.

Any ideas?

IAF

[HWooldridge]

Yeah, I have not yet found a good cure for that. A couple of things that help: 1) "V" the end of the spring so the weld penetration gets all the way to the center. 2) Make sure there are no sharp spots (notches) or lumps sticking up above the top of the die. These act as stress risers and can cause a crack to form.

Depending on how big the swage is, you can also add a little piece of square or angle stock next to the spring end to allow more weld metal surface area. This can cut down on having all the force applied right at the very end of the spring.

Good luck - maybe someone else has found a permanent fix for this and I'd also like to hear it.

[John Martin]

I don't have a power hammer, but my welding teacher and I made a spring hardie tool for his anvil for punching holes, and it kept breaking at the welds so he got some stuff from the welding supply store in town that was meant to take vibrations and heavy abuse. Heated the pieces to about red, welded, and then let air cool. Hasn't broke sense.

[SGropp]

I bet the spring handle is just mild steel, but the swage is some kind of tool steel.
I've used those tools a lot and never broken one at the weld ,although I did have a v cutter split in half. Kanye and Son replaced it promptly and without a fuss.
Try grinding the weld area back and reweld the tool with 309L stainless rod or wire. This electrode is really good for joining different types of steel. I don't think any pre or post heat treat is needed.
I've made a lot of power hammer tooling with mild steel handles and tool steel ends, welding them together with Mig using mild steel wire with no problems. Sometimes the tools get bent but never break.

[bipolarandy]

Iv only had the tool steel bits on my cutters crack from use, never the welds.
I normaly heat both pieces to be welded to a dull cherry and stick or mig weld them togeather with one pass.

[Rich Hale]

If you use those under drawing dies it may put extra stress on them flat dies may help.

[Mills]

You might post this question over on forgemagic, grant shows up over there and on the anvilfire forum. He maybe the one who made them. he has made a bunch and would likely respond to the inquiry.

[KNeilson]

FWIW, I have found that if you (before you work) adjust the spring die so it touches the work, and the dies are parralell (sp), they will not rock or move under the hammer blows as much and the welds will last a lot longer. Also the longer you make the spring I think helps.......................Kerry

[Hofi]

Welding with the 309 or any other of this type of rod and weld a good deep weld helps , but it is not enough.
If the upper part of the die is flat and parralel to the bottom part when one put the hot steel in the dies open and they are not parraler any more.
Then when u operate the air or machanical hammer the hammer upper die will hit the high edge of the die tool and create a momentum on the weld and cause its tear appart.
I grind the upper part of the tool in a small radius and by then the hammer will hit the center of the tool and allways only one point of the tool is being forged and no breaking momentum.
If u do the welding right and the right radius grinding the tool will never fail
hofi

[Dave Hammer]

Don't weld handles on. If you have a power hammer, you can make your own dies and draw the handle out from the same stock.

[SGropp]

What Hofi says makes sense. I always grind the corners and edges of my swages to eliminate any sharp edges. I also usually have to grind the top and bottoms of the swages that Off Center makes, as a lot of them are so cratered with scale pitting when they are manufactured, that they really chew up my hammer dies. Sometimes I use a sacrificial copper piece between the bottom die and the swage to save the wear and tear on the die. Has anyone else had this problem?
I've never broken one at the weld ,though.
I imagine if the hammer isn't big enough to close the die in a couple of hits, then there is a lot more stress and shock trasmitted to the tool.

[peacock]

I use lots of these type tools & have had the same problem. It is commonly caused by the constsnt flexing of top dye as it trys to adjust to the constantly changing stock thickness. my best fix is to weld and grind a good radius on top of the top dye(spring dye). that way as the top hammer dye strikes it it will not flex the handle as much. also when you repair a broken spring tool try welding it by running the weld beads lengthwise ( 90 degrees to the crack) start in the center make bead at least 2 or 3 times as long as the width of the stock then place shorter beads on each side till you have a diamond shaped patch over the break. this will keep the stress line from running across the spring handle. pre and post heat may help but you may lose the temper in your spring die. Another thing you may want to do is keep a master of what the tool is used to make (acorn, ball or whatever) that way when you need to weld the spring you can clamp the two halves togather with the master in the deprssion and your dies will be perfectly aligned.