Forge Welding Re-Visited

[John Martin]

Okay, I can forge weld, I've been practicing, and have a welded a lot of steel in the past three days. I mean a lot. Lol. Basically, I'm getting in my order of steel to make a bunch of tongs to set my smithy up. The tongs are going to be made out of 3/4" 1018 steel for jaws. Cold Finished. Scale was removed at supplier. Reins, forge welded on. 3/8" 1018 steel as well. Cold Finished. Overall length: Approx: 24". Once I get these done, I'll take pictures.

But, I don't want to screw up the welding on these. I can easily get them to high-welding temperature, (sparking), which is burning a little bit. I don't want to get it that high. I want to get it high enough to get a good solid weld, but not that high. SO my question is, how low of a color can you forge weld at??? I'm use Mule Team 20 for borax. Can you forge weld at yellow heat? I was watching a video on youtube, and it looked yellow, and he was forge welding no problem.

So my questions are:
Lowest possible forge welding temperature, and any tips with the tongs???? It's to be a "drop the tongs" weld. Unless I can get my little helper to assist me by holding the reins. Owen doesn't like forge welding, because last time he got a lot of burns on his hand when he forge welded. Because the steel was real close to melting, and he hit it to hard, and it splattered on his hand a little bit.

Thanks,
John

Edit: Here's the video of Mark Aspery. This is where I think it's at a yellow heat when he's forge welding.

Edited August 19, 2008 by m_brothers

[Doug C]

John,
Here is how I was taught and it works pretty well. It assumes you are using coal. Make a beehive style fire. Use a deep and high fire, damp coal, forms a hard shelled dome. In the front of the dome facing you open the dome enough to put you pieces in and still see the part in the fire. A slow constant air flow works best. The inside of the fire should look yellow.

Now look closer and you will see three shades of yellow, this is important later. Get the pieces to an orange, brush off the scale and put on the flux and get back in the fire. Watch the pieces. For larger stock I turn them a bit to get an even heat. When the steel's color matches the middle of the three shades of yellow and looks oily its welding time. When you pull the steel out of the fire it will smoke like mad. That's the boraxo(I use it too). I hit in the center of the length to be welded and work my way to the ends, trying to force the flux out of the weld.

I hit light as I found hitting hard breaks the weld apart if it get cool. I repeat the whole operation, flux, heat and hammer until I am happy with the weld. I was told that for the first several heats after the weld is done heat to the same temperature to work the piece.

Others here have way more experience and better technique. Hope it helps.

[ThomasPowers]

Lowest possible welding temperature is subzero---but you need to be in a hard vacuum with very clean metal and a lot of pressure.

I generally weld when the surface of the metal looks like butter melting in the sun---*before* it starts to spark!

[Rob Browne]

The main thing I have found is not to hurry the heating. If the metal is thick and there is a scarf then taking the pieces out of the fire to allow the thin bit to cool then putting it back in allows it to heat right through and not only have the outside at welding temperature. If it is not hot all the way through then it cools too quickly for effective welding.

[Doug C]

Both Thomas and Rob raise good points. Heat evenly. Read that as using a low air flow and contrary to many things I have read do not wait for sparks to appear. Bad things happen to steel went it burns. Thomas' description of melted butter is better than when I said oily. Just keep looking and experimenting. As Thomas has said in the past When it works for you it is what is right for you.

[John Martin]

Woah, the 3/4 in square stock was way to big, and I couldn't get it to weld good. So instead I used 7/16 round stock, here's my result. There for holding blades.

Not that great, but it's my first pair of tongs in over 9 months lol. I need to make two good ones for a guy who's starting.

Overall Length: 20in.

Anyhow, the picture:

Edited August 21, 2008 by m_brothers

[Finnr]

Not at all shabby John!
Finnr

[John Martin]

Thanks Art only thing that didn't go well was the one C on the tongs cracked when bending it, i hot cut it to help bend it, and then it was to cold when I bent it. And I bent them the wrong way. lol.

They are based off of Glenn's blade tongs at:
Blade & Flat Tongs

[tantrum86]

not bad at all! to answer your question above about the man forging in the yellow colors its very possible and high carbon steels usually weld in the orange color ranges remember to take your time practice as much as possible and always adjust youre methods based on both failures and success

[John Martin]

Thanks tantrum. I'll make sure to practice, practice, practice!

[KYBOY]

Thanks Art only thing that didn't go well was the one C on the tongs cracked when bending it, i hot cut it to help bend it, and then it was to cold when I bent it. And I bent them the wrong way. lol.

They are based off of Glenn's blade tongs at:
Blade & Flat Tongs

I have to say that guy makes some of the nicest tongs ive seen anywhere..i really like my set of flat tongs..

[draper84]

Glenn makes sweet tongs, any one know if he'd give me a pair:P