South west coal distribution

[blackleafforge]

Hi, I have reached the stage where I need to procure some fuel and after reading this segment in the recent BABA newsletter I am going to try and get some of the suggested Scottish coal:

For many years the very best forging coal was Maltby peas. This pit has now closed and the alternative coal wasKel- lingly which has also now closed. A few smiths have been using Welsh steam coal that is fine for general smithing work but has to be broken down to a reasonable forging size.

A new mine (opencast I believe) has opened in Scotland and I have been sent a sample to try out using my standard test for forge fuels. My colleague John Beavis and I have tried this coal out and it is very good. It is not as good as the Maltby, but far better than the Kellingly, and at £260.00 per ton plus VAT is a very economical fuel. This coal burns very hot with a low blast (we both use bellows), produces very little clinker and ash, is a low sulphur coal so welds well, has a reasonable burn rate, low smoke once the fire is established, but does not cake up like the Maltby and Kel- lingly; and gives off some surface heat but not excessive. It comes in smith's singles that is fine for most work and comes in 25kg or 20kg bags.

The coal merchant is K G Smith and Son, Northampton and is new to me, so I cannot give details on delivery etc at the moment [Note – I’ve bought Monckton coke from K G Smith in 2-tonne bagged loads for years, and they’re a very good firm to deal with – Keith Smith the CEO is very helpful and progressive - DQ], however as the smiths in the area club together to get a full lorry-load down and bagged to the distribution point in Swindon, I know he will deliver local deliveries free,

At the moment I am trying to put together an order for a full load, so anyone interested in trying this coal out can get in touch with me for a ton or 1/2 a ton minimum. At the moment we are up to 10 ton and I am sure the coal merchant will hold any full load surplus back to sell on to individuals who are not in a position to order just at the moment. 

 

I was wondering if anyone with in the South West and possibly Plymouth, had already organised a delivery I could contribute towards or failing that would anyone be interested in organising a joint delivery to this area? The Author of this review (Hector Cole) lives in Wiltshire, I am trying to gauge if there is the demand to get a bulk delivery further south. 

 

Thanks

Andy

[John B]

Hi Andy, Ffoss-y-fran coal from an open cast mine is available and stocked in Devon,  (This is a Welsh mine, not Scottish but has the same properties you describe))

The BMASW at Westpoint Forge will be using this when existing coke stocks are used up, come along to a members day held each second Saturday in the month to see it in use or try it for yourself.

[blackleafforge]

Thanks John, much appreciated. 

[AnthonyG]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I've run out of coke and have been looking for some. I contacted Symonds near Crediton and they stock coke in 20Kg bags.

I haven't managed to find anyone closer that stocks any

I was curious as to why the Westpoint Forge were going over to coal, I always assumed that coke was an easier fuel to use?

cheers

 

[John B]

Hi Anthony, you can purchase coke off the internet and have it delivered. 

I believe you will find Symonds are now out of coke, but do have coal, we have just taken delivery of half a tonne, and it is cheaper than the coke, and seems to work well, once it is in use, we are still getting into how best to use it.

The main reason we are going over to coal is because the forging coke used (from Monkton) is no longer being processed. It was mainly supplied and used for the power stations which are being converted or shut down, 

Your assumption "that coke was an easier fuel to use" is also questionable, Originally in the UK, charcoal came first, then came coal used in the Industrial revolution and steelmaking processes, and also by blacksmiths, the preferred coals being from the South Yorkshire and South Wales pits, then along came the "smoke free zones" and pollution control areas, and the shutting down of the collieries in the 1970's, so the supplies of suitable forging coal became minimal or unobtainable being replaced by the coke which was a by product of the Chemical industry and later supplied to power stations, now suffering again from the Non pollution policy.

Coke has different properties to coal, it burns hotter which can cause problems with dry tuyeres burning them out pretty rapidly, it is a pain to start, and needs a constant airflow or it goes out pretty quickly, Use too much air and your workpiece suffers, and you need to leave the blower on and then you are using more fuel than you need to. It also produces more clinker than the coal.

With coal it lights easily, Initially it will smoke, but once you have your first forging session over with then using the part coked coal to light your next fire, little or no smoke is seen, work new fuel in from the edges and not directly onto the hot spot, 

You can control the size of the fire using air flow, or water dampening.

You can leave the fire with no air and come back and still be able to easily restart it,

One problem to be aware of with coal is you want to make sure the fire is doused at the end of the forging session or if you have an excess of new coal around the fire area, the fire will spread and consume this fuel, and could be still alight in the morning when you come back to work (Don't ask how I am aware of this)

Ayy fuel can be used to get your metal hot, a lot is based on what you were introduced to as a beginner, and what was available at the time.

The coal we now use is from South Wales http://www.oldglory.co.uk/news/-ffos-y-fran-premium-welsh-dry-steam-coal and available throughout the UK, and it has always been our policy on the courses to use materials and fuels that is available to the students and the area they live in. 

There are three grades/sizes most smiths seem to prefer the smaller(sold as a domestic use fuel as Gloda)nuts or large nuts but not the cobbles.

If you want to try some then feel free to pop along to one of our member's days, every second Saturday in the month, www.blacksmiths-training.org.uk or you could try googling Cornish Blacksmiths Association, or Dingles Steam Village and asking them where they get their fuel from

[Dave Budd]

I get my fuel from Northover Fuels in Bovy Tracey, so a little closer (the used to be Jeffries but were bought out by a Somerset based company). I don't know how their coke supplies are as I only buy my fuel once a year. 

Aside from the apparent scarcity of coke, I'm switching over to using coal with my next order on account of the poor quality of the coke that I have had the last few years. Basically I am sick to death of wasting half of every heat cleaning clinker off things! I've played with a couple of bags of the Welsh coal (from Northover) over the winter to see if I liked it better than coke and there is no contest. The coal needs breaking up, but that's not hard to do and takes some getting used to. The main difference I found in use for me (aside from almost no clinkers and a bit of soot on the metal) was that fire is softer and I kept losing pieces of work into the fire until I got used to it. On the whole it is much more like working with charcoal only cheaper 

[Joel OF]

I made contact with my local steam train line & they use the Ffos-y-fran large nuts & said they can possibly sort me out some. (They buy direct in 28 tonne volume). I prefer the sound of the smaller Gloda nuts but my local coal merchants don't know of it. Is it something that only a few national merchants do by delivery or is it worth me ringing round more coal merchants in Kent for sake of collection?

[John B]

Its the same stuff as what you have access to, just been graded, I would try what you can easily access first, you can always break it up into smaller pieces, try it before you go off looking for something you prefer the sound of, 

As a kid I used to pass many a Saturday morning smashing large lumps of coal into smaller more usable sizes for my old Grannie to use throughout the week in her hearth.

[Joel OF]

Granny (of a) Smith.

[John B]

And a bit of a Pippin !

[Joel OF]

How does this Ffos-y-fran stuff measure up against coke in terms of cost over a period of time?

I nipped down to the local steam railway & they did me 7 buckets for £7.50 (over filled a black plastic bin I took down which must be 70+ litres) & offered to sort me out a better rate if I bought in volume.

So far I've only had about 3 hours of forging time with it but I was very pleased with it.

[John B]

Personally I have yet to make a long term assesment of it. My usage may differ from yours, but all reports I have heard from others using it seem to be quite favourable and somewhat cheaper than the coke.

We have got the Devon County Show coming up this week on Thursday, Friday and Saturday, so should have something to base an opinion on.

If anyone is around, come along and introduce yourself, we usually have a kettle on and a cuppa on offer, Also an excellent static display of competition pieces, and live forging demos and competitions, this year the competitors have two hours to forge a kinetic sculpture, 30 minutes to make something sellable, and 45 minutesto forge an axe head from an old farrier's rasp.