Hardfacing rod, Revisited:

[DocsMachine]

Just how hard is my anvil face, anyway?

To summarize: I have a 140-lb Peter Wright that's badly chipped, rounded and dented, that I've been planning on repairing using hardfacing arc-welding rods. To that end, I bought (at no small cost) a 10-lb box of Stoody 31 (an "all around" hard rod which was all the shop had in stock at the time) and later, a box of Stoody 2110, one of the ones commonly recommended for anvil repairs.

Stoody's documentation for the 31 says it'll land around the high forties Rockwell, and the 2110 says 50-52 Rockwell over carbon steel.

Now, not being a complete idiot, I tested them before committing to welding on the anvil proper. For a sample of relatively high carbon steel, I used an old truck spring, and for a high-manganese sample, I have a chunk of old train rail.

My results? Both of 'em suck.

I ran two beads, one of each rod, on the truck spring (suitably ground clean) with no preheat, and no cool-down insulation or protection. One would presume that would be as hard as they'd be able to get, right? The 2110, which was, according to Stoody's own documentation, the "harder" of the two by several points Rockwell, cut very easily with a file- even easier than the base spring metal, and almost identical to a piece of plain mild steel.

The 31 was noticibly harder, but could still be cut with only minimal difficulty with the file.

I then tried a short bead of each, quenched in water. No change. Now, I'm definitely not up on the metallurgy of the 2110, with it's high manganese and chromium contents, but I assumed that a water quench would make it about as hard as it was going to get, short of reheating back to red and doing a full quench.

Unfortunately I have no access to a Rockwell tester (I will once the college opens up in the fall) so I can't make any accurate comparisons.

But one thing I did try was a center punch. It's a store-bought punch (not something I heat-treated) with a relatively freshly ground tip. Obviously I can't "calibrate" my hammer swings either, but tapping the punch into each material in turn revealed about the same results as the file; Big dent in mild steel, a noticibly shallower dent in the 2110, shallower still in the 31 (and slightly blunted the punch) about equivalent dent in the spring itself, and just for comparisons' sake, I tried it in a discreet and already-damaged section of the anvil face itself.

The anvil was utterly unmarked and badly blunted the punch.

I reground the tip and tried it on the file, a relatively new Nicholson- it made a nice dent and only very slightly blunted the punch. (Testing on the file itself, not the tang end.)

So for the moment I have to shelve the idea of repairing this anvil. Assuming I'm not missing some major point in using these rods, they can't or won't give me a surface anywhere near as hard as my existing face. Besides that, the 31 cracked several times- which the Stoody documentation clearly noted.

I also had no idea this face was quite that hard- it's obviously several points harder than a file, which makes me wonder how hard it is. High fifties Rockwell? Low sixties? Seventies? How hard is a modern name-brand file? How hard is a ball bearing?

Doc.

[Jura T]

I ran two beads, one of each rod, on the truck spring (suitably ground clean) with no preheat, and no cool-down insulation or protection. One would presume that would be as hard as they'd be able to get, right?

Did you peen the welds? High manganese steels are work hardening. Check the info for Stoody 2110:
http://www.thermadyne.com/stoody/literature/pdfs/Mne006.pdf
As deposited hardness is really low. 200 BHN is less than 20 HRC.

[DocsMachine]

Did you peen the welds?

-Sort of. On one of the 2110 beads, I beat on the flat spot I'd filed, with the round end of a ball-peen. Not whalin'-the-tar hammering, but some decent blows. Didn't seem to affect either the file test or the centerpunch test.

Admittedly it was half an attempt, Might try pounding on it a bit more in the morning.

I had no idea the brinnell was that low a Rockwell. I suppose I should find a conversion table (I know I saw one online once) but I kind of glossed over that in the paperwork, not knowing what the conversion was. R20 or so would indeed be down in the mild steel range, I think.

What do you think this anvil face is? 60? 65? I found a file company that makes what they call the hardest file available at Rc72. $15 plus shipping is kind of expensive just to see how hard something is, but it'd be interesting to know.

Doc.

[jeremy k]

Doc- Here's a link to the makers of MG740 : Index I called them and ordered a 10lb box. I had to order from one of their suppliers but they were easy to deal with. As far as the hardness of your anvil when done... working red hot metal can be done on a mild steel block for quite a long time without seeing some distortion, so I really don't think that it is as critical as you seem to think, hot metal will move way before your anvil or ASO. Jr. Strasil has a good method and was offering his experience from many repairs, Don't be numb to his advise. - Just my thoughts - JK

[Jura T]

DocsMachine said:

What do you think this anvil face is? 60? 65?
Doc.

 

Less than that. See the links below:
Centaur Forge-Delta 100 lb. Future 3 Anvil
link removed at the request of anvilfire
BRANCO

Delta is 52, Kohlswa 55-57 and the Czech anvils >44 HRC. I have a Czech anvil (not the same as in the link though, but with similar specs). I had to return the first one as it was too soft. Hammering redhot steel on it left marks. The second one has been a lot better, just some marks from missed blows. I don't know, but I would expect the hardness to be less than 50 HRC.

 

[Jmercier]

I have one friend who refaced his anvil with magnese hardfacing rod, and every time he had someone over his shop for the first month he had them beat on the thing with a tiny ballpien hammer for 20 mins before they did anything, his anvil is nice now.

Another person who I just met a few weeks ago who's a professional welder and who has repaired ~20+ anvils, including all the ones that he uses regularly says to use 11018 to rebuild the surface of an anvil and that you'll have no problems with it ever again unless you abuse it in ways that would damage any anvil.

[HWooldridge]

The older anvils can easily be in the 60's for Rc hardness. The makers used shear steel - probably 60-70 points and hardened without a tempering step. Many old anvils will slide a file - it's not uncommon. The newer ones are designed more with impact in mind so are not as glass hard, which is why the old anvils chipped and broke - they were really too hard for some types of work.

[irnsrgn]

FWIW Dept. - I just finished Postmans book, The Mousehole Forge, (it was a fathers day gift from my wife), bless her heart. On the subject of Anvils with chipped or broken edges, Postman's research of the Mousehole Forge, confirmed my thoughts that the reason a majority of Anvils have edge problems is during the quenching process to harden the Steel faces the thinner edges cooled faster than the rest of the top, creating hard brittle material that is easily chipped or broken off. Mousehole forge often used a hot piece of iron held to the edges after grinding to Draw the hardness of the edges to prevent this from happening. That is why for the years I have been repairing anvils I was more concerned with the anticrushing properties of the rod I used than the as welded hardness. My concerns were well founded when I realized the rod I was using was work hardning with use. I have not tried the file test to check the hardness, but I use the edges of my anvils hard and they are holding up very well with no crushing or chipping.

[jeremy k]

Jr - I'll second the use of the edges on my anvil (same rod{MG740} was used). It's holding up very well - JK

[Jose Gomez]

Stoody 2110 is most commonly used as a crush resistant build up rod for replacing thick sections of missing or worn material under a final layer of impact resistant hardface. Stoody 1105 is the hardface rod typically applied for the final two layers that will end up being the face or work surface. If applied in this order you can consistently acchieve face hardnesses in the mid to high 50s (52-56 in my expierience). 2110 by it self will not do what you want by it self, but it forms the perfect high manganese crush resistant work hardening foundation for a finish pass with impact resistant material.