John Larson Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I have been assuming the Bull throttle valve for the air is a ball valve. However, I'd like to know for sure. Can some one answer this for me. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciladog Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I have been assuming the Bull throttle valve for the air is a ball valve. However, I'd like to know for sure. Can some one answer this for me. Thanks in advance. Yep, just a ball valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senft Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I have been assuming the Bull throttle valve for the air is a ball valve. However, I'd like to know for sure. Can some one answer this for me. Thanks in advance. John, what type throttle valve do you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Let me guess :rolleyes: A ball valve :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Senft, I use a proprietary valve that gives high flow and linearity in the opening area as the quarter turn from closed to open occurs. It is the fundamental reason why Iron Kiss hammers give power and control without compromise. Regular ball valves are highly non-linear. Mid-range treadle movement gives more change per unit of movement than at near-opening and near-closing. Usually they are kept small diameter to reduce the nonlinearity effect. I view this as going for control over power. Old tyme self-contained hammers went to great lengths to achieve linearity. I believe the same is true of steam hammers. A steam hammer valve is seen on Danger Dillon's thread here. I believe they were called sleeve valves. A 5-port spool valve is a type of sleeve valve. Poppet valves provide linearity (circmferance times lift). It is to Tom Troszak's credit that he devised a linkage to live with this inherent character of ball valves. I think the Bull could be made even more controllable with a more linear throttle valve. And more powerful with higher Cv circuits. I use 3/4" inside diameter circuits, or larger on the Octagon 200. Years ago I hot rodded the very first Big Blu 150 for Steve Barringer and with the Big Blu ball-type throttle valve there was still a very noticeable performance enhancement with larger hoses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Sorry, I should have said Thank You before the sermon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 The insights of a gifted PH man such as yourself are the sort of sermons I like.....Thank you John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 many an hour has been spent inside the castings of self contained hammers 'porting' the air flow! gotta make it easy for it to get where it needs to be! An intersting fact for the hammer geeks. At Massey in 'the hayday' the Clear Space hammers were made in batches of 4 (sometimes more). Now, take 4 sets of parts, machined the same, and 4 sets of castings made from the same patterns - result ? 4 hammers that acted differently on the test floor. Each hammer was then very carefully 'tuned', over several days, via drilling escape holes in the valves, compressors etc untill they acted similar. No 2 are ever quite the same though. (some are flighty, some have dead spots, some are a bit lumpy thumpy) They all have a personality. Anyone who has had some anvi ltime on a few hammers will verify this! Very subtle differences in a machine (surface finish of castings, a slightly slipped core etc) add up to a noticable difference when you push the treadle down.Get a really good hammer and there is a little bit of magic in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The control valve or sleeve valve controls the stroke, the openings in the valve are covered and uncovered in a straight line as you can see in my thread steam hammers. The throttle valve in the steam hammer is also a rectangle slot opening but the valve has a pie slice or vee cut out of the middle that allows a small ramp at he very beginning of becoming open. I will try and find a pic for you John. This came up once before and I suggested a modification to a ball valve with a vee cut, not sure if it would work? John N, when I rebuilt the Niles it was bored from 8" to 8 1/2", ported and polished B) A massive mashing machine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senft Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Senft, I use a proprietary valve that gives high flow and linearity in the opening area as the quarter turn from closed to open occurs. It is the fundamental reason why Iron Kiss hammers give power and control without compromise. Regular ball valves are highly non-linear. Mid-range treadle movement gives more change per unit of movement than at near-opening and near-closing. Usually they are kept small diameter to reduce the nonlinearity effect. I view this as going for control over power. Old tyme self-contained hammers went to great lengths to achieve linearity. I believe the same is true of steam hammers. A steam hammer valve is seen on Danger Dillon's thread here. I believe they were called sleeve valves. A 5-port spool valve is a type of sleeve valve. Poppet valves provide linearity (circmferance times lift). It is to Tom Troszak's credit that he devised a linkage to live with this inherent character of ball valves. I think the Bull could be made even more controllable with a more linear throttle valve. And more powerful with higher Cv circuits. I use 3/4" inside diameter circuits, or larger on the Octagon 200. Years ago I hot rodded the very first Big Blu 150 for Steve Barringer and with the Big Blu ball-type throttle valve there was still a very noticeable performance enhancement with larger hoses. So it's a whistle valve or modified check valve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.