Forging a shaft

[Kallsme]

This is one of the forging metod i use to forge for example a shaft to a Volvotruck gerabox, to the prototype shop.

Roger

[Ed Thomas]

Roger: Great fun, as usual. Thanks.

One question: I can't tell from the picture if you have a bottom fuller to form the shoulder? That's very nice isolation with only a top tool, if there is no bottom tool.

[irnsrgn]

Very nice demonstration of side setting and drawing down.

[Kallsme]

The bottom fuller is just to hold the shaft under the hammer so it wont fall down on the floor, and it keeps holding the shaft round a little better
than just using the tool and no fuller,
You can use the topp tool wothout a lower fuller but its a little bit complicated.

Yes there is no lower tool to make the waist on the shaft only topp tool.

Wath is the correct name of such topp tool in english:confused:

Roger

[irnsrgn]

The top tool is called a necking fuller when it is used at the anvil and has a wooden handle, but when used under the steam hammer it was called a side set.

[BT]

I have also seen the tool referred to as a butcher.

[irnsrgn]

BT a butcher is similar to a hot cut, except it has a concave cutting edge for butchering or cutting the corners of a piece so that burrs stick up so that when set in concrete or mortar the burrs won't let it work out. The English sometimes use them prior to side setting or necking to get a sharp edge started for making tenons with square shoulders.

Necking fullers and side sets generally have a round edge to keep from having sharp corners that will cause stress failures at the point where the boss and the drawn piece meet.

If you look closely at the piece the side set was used on, you will see the radius at the bottom and also how the round edge pulled a slight radius on the square corner of the boss, if a sharp edge had been needed, a butcher would have been used for the initial work as it cuts instead of squishes for lack of a better word.

[Kallsme]

Ok, thanks

I will put up other pictures of tools i use when i´m forging shaft,
A wery smart hot cutter for example, and other side set, etc

Roger

[Ed Thomas]

irnsgrn: In most cases, the tool under the power hammer is called the same thing as it would be if hand struck. I have never heard a fuller called a side set, because a set tool of any sort is an entirely different tool than a fullering tool.

In the "Open Die Forging Manual", published by the Forging Industry Asssociation, on page 72 , they have a clear description: "For the production of shafting, the forgesmith will require ... fullering bars to initiate setdowns or changes in section of the forging" On page 73, is an illustration of the various tooling, including the described fullering tool. I could find no mention of a "side set" to do the same or similar job, nor have I ever heard any power hammer user call a fullering tool a side set tool.

[irnsrgn]

I guess you should read some other books, The Blacksmiths Manual Illustrated plates 41 and 47, show necking fullers and side sets. Different countries and localities call things by different names I generally go by what my grandfather and father called tools and also the Big Railroad shop that used to be here when I was a kid and I was allowed to go in the shop and watch as I was a blacksmiths kid. It was a part of my apprenticeship to learn how the big stuff was done.

I learned what a set hammer was, and a hot cut was often refered to as a hot set. I have often wondered how a Cheese fuller got its name.

And I suppose most have never used a Set Hammer as a shear either, its a very effiecent shear when used right.

[Ian]

I've seen that done Jr, and ive seen the same method used under big hammers by a couple of Industrial Smiths. The bloke to ask for the names of the tools would be Glenn Moon. 33 years in the trade, one of the last fully papered Industrial Smiths in Oz, apprenticed at BHP. Forgotten more than most folks will ever know. If I get chance I'll email him and ask for his two cents.

[Ed Thomas]

irnsgrn:

Yes, I see those plates you referenced, and the description. Thank you for the direction. Despite frequently recommending those books, I often forget how good they are.

I don't use what I call a set tool as a shear under the power hammer, since I typically use a snapper for that, although the shape of a snapper is really just a narrow set tool, I guess.

[irnsrgn]

I believe you will find the reference to using a set hammer for cutting in The Modern Blacksmith by Holstrum.(sp)

[bruce wilcock]

in the smithy we spoke of fullering irons ,a fuller is the impression in the bar ,side sets were only used on steel, never on iron, left and right hand ,a fuller was often made to position a side set , all our side sets had a round bottom edge, and we were not allowed to cut cold steel under the hammers ,there must had been a accident at some time .
Side sets can be pigs to drive in if there isnt a good start for them ,they want to tip over.

[Kallsme]

Here in Sweden there are many different names for the same tools if you are talking to other blacksmith.

Roger