Has anyone made dies by hand? I am fortunate my Anyang's dies are very small, and I am thinking it would not be too bad to make up another set myself. I do not have any machine tools up to this task, so I was thinking with a grinder, bandsaw and files I could make one. I was wondering if anyone has done that before?

I figure get some stock or cut some stock to the dimensions i need, scribe out the dovetails on both sides then cut and grind until both scribe lines meet with a straight edge across from one to the other?

I've done it. I helps to have a bandsaw that cuts dead vertical like a Roll- In. Not nearly as precise as machined but doable. Why not make top and bottom die receivers inserts that will allow bolt in dies? Much simpler to make bolt ins.

I made a set years ago for my treadle hammer. I made them as 2 pieces and did have access to a good disc sander. I made the dovetail as one piece and then welded the ends and plug welded it on to the die which was a separate piece.

Clifton Ralph shows how he has forged them in his power hammer videos. Be warned they are very tooling intensive.

I wonder if I could just drill and tap the sow block then make a plate that goes over the dovetails with a block welded underneath to support it over the dovetail then weld/bolt dies to that? Would allow me to make all different lower dies.

Sam, Let's take your idea a bit further. Take off the sow block and the piece it is mounted to right down to the casting. Get a piece of round of equal diameter and a height about 5/8 inch below the bottom of the die. Drill that piece to mount on the hammer casting. Then drill and tap mounting holes on the top of it for 1/2 or 5/8 bolts. Now all you have to do is get 1/2 or 5/8 inch thick rounds (of a smaller diameter) to weld your dies to and bolt them down.

Like these

Here's a quick change arrangement that works on top or bottom

You can make a receiver like that, that's held in by a key and not mess with drilling the SB.

I have forged dies. Cliftion showed me how to do this, but DO NOT TRY TO DO THIS ON AN AIR HAMMER.
You will damage your hammer. Even 1 0r 2 blows without 1 of the dies in it can damage the ram guide or ram or both.
If you have an extra die you can forge a dovetail tool to reproduce your dove tail.. When I make dies I use a shaper.
If you do make dies by hand make a key for each die as you will most likely not be able to reprodce the dove tail exactly,
and the key can correct some of the error.

I have forged dies. Cliftion showed me how to do this, but DO NOT TRY TO DO THIS ON AN AIR HAMMER.
You will damage your hammer. Even 1 0r 2 blows without 1 of the dies in it can damage the ram guide or ram or both.

True, but if you are careful the dies touch each other and raise the ram above the bottom of the stroke at least1/4'' before operating the hammer that won't happen.

John, I remember seeing Clifton's vid forging that die, too much for me!! :D

Craig that's good thinking. Maybe a bit too much than I could handle working bigger stuff like that though.

Bruce, I could but then I would still have to cut a dovetail :D

Phil yes I would not try that in my or any air hammer.

Craig that's good thinking. Maybe a bit too much than I could handle working bigger stuff like that though.

What do you mean 'bigger stuff like that.' Make the dies as small as you want. All you have to be able to do is drill some holes. A place like Speedy Metals will cut the rounds for you for no charge.

Bruce, I could but then I would still have to cut a dovetail :D

Like I said before you can make them in a bandsaw and hand fit them....Getting the correct bevels is tricky but it can be done, which was the original question. If you then bolt dies to that member then you only make one dovetail. Machining would be better.

What do you mean 'bigger stuff like that.' Make the dies as small as you want. All you have to be able to do is drill some holes. A place like Speedy Metals will cut the rounds for you for no charge.

I would have to get the round, face cut both ends to make it good and flat, I could drill the holes no problem though. No?

Bruce, yeah good point.

Sam, if you have access to a funky tablesaw you don't care too much about you can install an abrasive cutoff wheel, set your angles for your dovetails and by taking will light vertical cuts meaning raise the blade in increments you can cut some pretty accurate dovetails on a separate bar and install them like Bruce says.

Hey Dick! Is that old saw that didn't sell in the auction still in the barn there? I can't beleive I missed that. I think that would be ideal.

Sam... why are you over thinking this ? You have the skills, you should do it in half a day ! Stop thinking it to death and do it ! !

As I recall you got a six inch metal lathe. There are ways to face a 6 inch round on that lathe but if you don't want to try just get the rounds and I'll face them for you. Or what Dick and Bruce said.

Sam it's still here.

Why round? square or rectangular is fine....Another way to do a dovetail in the bottom die/die receiver is to bolt the dovetail to the upper plate using counter bore holes to attatch the dovetail to the upper plate....no massive hogging out of material to make L shapes...there's more than one way to gut a dog......

Sam... why are you over thinking this ? You have the skills, you should do it in half a day ! Stop thinking it to death and do it ! !

Larry ,I don't believe Sam is over thinking it. WE all are. :huh:

I made dies for my Anyang whith an angelgrinder a coordinatetable and a drillpress. Theres a description of how i did it at the swedish Antracit forum. I gues you have to google translate it and you need to register to se pictures.

Sam I have a question. Are you hoping to just make one more set of dies, top and bottom, that you would use often that are just a simple profile shape. Or are you looking for a way to make many dies that would be used for short runs on one e lament of another? Your answer will narrow down all the types of dies greatly.

If just one more set of dies that are maybe half round for quick drawing, I would take the time to cut them out of good steel and just make them with good strong dove tails. I am sure you could do it with hand tools alone. If your looking for something the you can change quick I would maybe two dies out of a medium carbon steel and cut them short and just drill and tap two holes in each so you can quickly bolt on a "cap" profile to each one. Then you could make many simple caps that would change fast.

Has anyone ever tried this method? http://www.metalsmith.org/pub/mtlsmith/V16.4/weld-die.htm

Before I got a mill I made a couple of sets of dies on my radial arm saw using a grinder wheel in lieu of a blade. It worked just fine. There are a few problems that you need to be aware of so that you can protect and compensate. First of all, there is a lot of dross thrown off so you need to wear a respirator and eye protection. There are a lot of sparks so there is a need to be careful that the spark stream is deflected or contained so the you do not set your shop on fire. Move your machine outside if possible. A simple jig made out of plywood to hold the work piece in stable alinement and at the correct dovetail angle and keep the piece alined is all that you really need. Just take light cuts and push the grinder stone through from the front of the saw rather than pulling as the saw is normally used (otherwise the wheel just climbs the work piece).

I think that jig is still around in my old shop maybe I could retreive it for a photo opp in a week or two.

You can forge the dovetales seperate and weld them to the main die blocks, but on an air hammer you will need to have a spacer block to go between the work piece and the top die to ensure the ram does not exceed it's maximum safe travel. Here is the method:
Forge or aquire a block of steel that is just a hair narrower than the narrowest point of the dovetail. Be sure this block is a good bit taller than the depth of dove tail in the sow block. Also be sure it is narrow enough for the key to fit into the sow block with this block in place of the die. With the lower die removed from the sow block, heat the block to be forged as hot as you can get it. Put a flat backed fuller in the sowblock dovetail, round side up. Try to keep that in the center of the dovetail. Put the hot block on top of this with the key loosly in place and forge down. The fuller will push the metal towards the corners of the dovetail cavitiy. You will have to pound a little then tap in the key. Keep alternating between the hot metal an the key. Knock out the key and remove the fuller. Torch or grind the mushroomed edges off the top side of the dovetail block. Re-heat and repeat above, but this time leave out the fuller. Remove and grind to final fit. I did this several times before I got a mill and it is effective. The fit is not as good as machined doevetail but it was good enough and I still use some of the dies I made this way. If you've done everything correctly, the bottom and top of this block willb e parrelllel so it should be straight forward to weld whatevery you want to these forged dovetails.
However, since your dies are fairly small, I'd suggest having a local machin shop mill up a bunch of blancks that you could then modify as you need. It probably won't cost that much, expecially if you use a basic steel like 1045. Once they have the setup, it should be a pretty quick machining job. Patrick