K A Willey Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 What have you guys found to be the best steel to make powerhammer spring tooling out of, what holds up best in the long run, 90% of my work is forged hot but I do do some small stuff at a lower temp. Thanks Willey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 for short runs mild steel works well for the arms and some short run swages also. For "sharp" cutting tooling and corners H13 is a good choice..if you heat treat them. 4140 for most general application tools such as fullers and hacks and such. It really depends upon what you have for heat treating capability, how many parts you intend to make off the tool and how good you are with the tool. I have seen students ruin a tool in ten seconds that I have used for years to make hundreds of parts. For "quick" swages I hairpin bend some 14/1 1/2" mild steel and butt weld them to blocks of mild steel and then heat sink the swage pattern into the blocks...clean up the swage and go to work. The welds will fatigue and break near the butt weld most likely. There was a good discussion about that, and avoiding it, somewhere on this list. Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I made some out of 4140 and just used them as forged- no heat treatment. They are holding up just fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K A Willey Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Thanks Ric and Clinton I have used 1018 and 4140 for the the tooling I have made, the 4140 ones have held up much better under the power hammers and for cold work in my press the first ones I made out of 1018 and case hardened them they held up well but mushroomed out the center under the press but worked well under the hammer, I run a 100lb Beaudry for my hot work and a hydralic press for my lower temp work for crisp lines the 4140 is holding up well for the cold work so far as I have only run bout a 100 pieces through them, thanks again for the imput its always nice to see what is working for other smiths Willey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Wiley, Some of the endurance of mild steel dies is gained from the shape you wish to swage, preforming so the swage is not asked to do the major metal movement, but rather just to get the final shape..some shapes can be done in one heat with three or four swages better then one swage where you have to knock it so hard it will deform. For sharp detail and corners and such you need more yield strength then what mild steel can deliver. Presses heat the dies due to slow movement and thus more heat transfer to the dies from the part...this needs to be taken into account. I have an h13 cut off that is mushroomed so badly it does not work well (I still use if of course cause I ain't that bright)..it gets so hot that any heat treatment is wiped out after a few uses....this is a design flaw on my part, not the H13. Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I use either 4140 or 4340 for most of my tools for under the hammer. Smaller punches etc. I use H13. I have some mild steel tools that I made when I only had my 100lb kinyon hammer. If I use them with the Massey it just destroys them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K A Willey Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 Thanks for the input Ric And JNewman I'm always looking to make the best tools I can I have the ability the heat treat about anything .Ric or anyone else what do you think would be the best choice for sharpe edges and a clean finishon mild steel (1018) I'm looking to make some unique dies for some spur blanks, I will be doing them under the Beaudry in as minimal heats as possibleI will be leaving them in as forge finish as clean and sharp as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K A Willey Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Ric, re read your post I didn't see were you talked about the sharp detail. I work on a set of finishing swages tonight I used 4140 but haven't heat treated them yet, I will be useing them in the Beaudry forging at a lower heat to get as sharp a finish detail as I can get, what would you guys suggest for heat treatment the swages are 2 1/2 inchs long 1 inch thich by 1 inch wide. Thanks Willey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 swages we normally make out of 1045, tools for stamping stuff in we make out of EN36A (4317, 17crnimo6) stopper pads normally 1045 or for ones that get used a lot 4140, we dont HT swages etc just use them as forged, the stamping dies we in 4317we HT (take to orange, chuck into the water, wait till cold and weld a handle on it and use it) Power hammer tooling is not rocket surgery. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K A Willey Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Phil, I get paid for the detail in my work so I need good sharp detail as forged so I dont have alot of clean up I know its not (rocket surgery as you call it) but I need tools that work and I'm sick of so called quality tools that turn out to be xxxx aftet a few forgings (chipping of or mush rooming) I need specific tooling for specific operations, I can't buy the tooling I need so I need to make it that why I asked the questions to those of you who do alot of production work. I'm sick of spending money on xxxx tools I need some thing I can use so I guess I need to stop and make the tooling myself. thanks for the help and suggestions don't take this the wrong way I'm just sick of sorry xxx tools. I quess I'm picky but to bad thats what I get paid for! I'll just keep tweaking it till I get it right. Thanks Willey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I will have to keep what you use in mind Phil. 1045 is quite a bit cheaper than 4140 and especially cheaper than 4340. The EN35A sounds good but is unfortunately not readily available around here. Part of the reason I use the 4140 and 4340 a lot is I have about 300 pounds of 2.5"x4" 4140 from a job that went bad 5 years ago and I use a fair amount of 4340 and have some small drops that I use and dozens of 1x1x2-3" offcuts I usually have 2 3/4" round in stock. It's always easiest to use what you have in stock. When my 4140 stock gets down I will have to pick up some more 1045. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Phil, I get paid for the detail in my work so I need good sharp detail as forged so I dont have alot of clean up I know its not (rocket surgery as you call it) but I need tools that work and I'm sick of so called quality tools that turn out to be shit aftet a few forgings (chipping of or mush rooming) I need specific tooling for specific operations, I can't buy the tooling I need so I need to make it that why I asked the questions to those of you who do alot of production work. I'm sick of spending money on shit tools I need some thing I can use so I guess I need to stop and make the tooling myself. thanks for the help and suggestions don't take this the wrong way I'm just sick of sorry ass tools. I quess I'm picky but to bad thats what I get paid for! I'll just keep tweaking it till I get it right. Thanks Willey If there is a fair amount of detail the 4340 is definitely tougher than 4140. It is not available around here in square or rectangular which is not a problem if you are forging to shape but can be a hassle if you are machining it to shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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