Help making the "Vee" in vee bit tongs

[territorialmillworks]

This week I made 6 flat bit tongs on the PH. A steep learning curve with lots of failures but I finally got faster and better, enough not to be ashamed to say 'I made those myself'. So I tried to make V-bit tongs to hold square stock. The bottom tool was 1/4" thick angle welded to a plate and relieved the center of the V on the mill so not to cut thru the bit from over penetration. The top tool was made from a diagonal cut of 1" sq bar and welded a half round rod on top to help center the blow... Wasted the bir and ruined the bottom tool Hind sight, should have practiced on a short piece of stock first. LOL . What am I missing... how thick should the V-bit be? Should I hammer a piece of square bar into a large block to make the bottom tool? Do I need to make the initial bend with a sharper top tool and then use the square tool to finish the shape..Any and all ideas appreciated...THX, Keith

[brianbrazealblacksmith]

Keith, there are many different ways to make the v-bits. I myself do them with hand tools and a hand hammer witch I do not suggest emulating. If you have the equipment, you would be better off checking out the way Grant Sarver makes his tongs, forged to finish. The only thing that I would suggest doing differently than any other tongs out there on the market is making the v-bits a little less than a 90 degree angle to hold square stock even better.

[HWooldridge]

You must have a BIG power hammer to tear up your setup like that...a solid block works well for a bottom tool. A piece of square with one edge rounded to allow a decent hit without kicking sideways is good for a top tool. Weld a light steel rod handle at a 90 to the tool so you can see what you are doing.

I never preform the bits - just put the flat over the die and swat it but a light first hit is beneficial to get the crease in the right place.

Grant makes tongs all day long - maybe he'll chime in with expert advice.

[Wesley Chambers]

I'm in the same boat with Brian, doing mine by hand but now that I have a ph I could look into crafting a jig but why not forge out to 90% on the hammer then do the V by hand, first pair I made worked for about three years and it was mild steel and the V made on the step of the anvil.

[Dillon Sculpture]

Clifton Raph has some great powerhammer techniques on CD, might be worth a look.

[Frank Turley]

There are probably lots of ways to get the vee. I do mostly hand forging, and I sometimes have a striker, which helps. I've sent two views of my tooling, one old time vee swage that fits in the hardy hole and a matching vee fuller to be used in conjunction with the swage. The bolt tong in the photo has a vee bit which is 5/16" thick. I acquired the vee swage many years ago. It is forged of one piece of wrought iron, apparently hot split and opened to 90º. Some swage blocks have a vee on edge.

It these tools are not in one's kit, I would arc weld up the vee swage of relatively heavy material and I would use the corner of a 3/4" to 1" square MS bar as a field expedient. Just hold and hit the bar on the diamond.

[Francis Trez Cole]

check out these two tools for the power hammer they work real good http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wq0r9KA1So http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_14lh_jd4s&feature=related John dose a great job as well. Grants is the man though

[clinton]

http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/21309-power-hammer-tong-jig-ii/page__fromsearch__1
I used this info provided by Gearhartiron it works real well for me

[territorialmillworks]

Taking note of John's video I fillet welded the whole area between the base and the angle for reinforcement. I'm thinking I started out hitting too hard and the unsupported wall collapsed which caused the train wreck... Second try - perfect thanks fellows, Keith

[Ten Hammers]

This may seem strange to some. I have taken standard jawed tongs and drilled into the end for stock holding and then drilled across the jaw about 1/2" from the end to hold rings or loops. This is drilling both jaws at once. I have also forged the (hot) jaw with piece of stock inside. Drilling works exceptionally well (AND round holed bits hold square just fine for me ).

[Randy]

I do mine basiclly the same way that Frank does. I found a small v-block from a press brake and use that in the vise or cut of the lower web and weld on a piece to fit the hardie hole. My top tool is a hand held chisel made to a 90 degree end. As nice as it is I'd have to be making a lot of tongs to make the tooling that Gearhartiron has for it to pay for itself.

I have had over a hundred tongs over the years and only found one pair that had v-grooves. All of them were made round. Didn't they have square stock or what? The v-grooves hold square and round so why weren't v's more popular?

[Frank Turley]

Randy,
Years ago, I lucked into a set of flat and bolt tongs manufactured by ATHA. They were all size-marked. The bolt tongs bits were half round, concavo-convex. Although vee bits may be more versatile, I figured the company would sell more tongs by sizing, stamping, and making the bits half round. ¿Quien sabe?

[Wesley Chambers]

Ten Hammers, this is a very common practice for a lot of tong jaws if Im following you in the end you have a half round cross on each bite, my buddy in school was taught this method at the Hereford school of blacksmithing.