Central Wisconsin Instructor

[Maillemaker]

So, I'm finally fed up with not being able to weld. I've tried again and again, and I've only been able to set one lousy weld. Is there anyone in the Wausau/Antigo/Rhinelander/Merril, Wisconsin area that could teach a young blacksmith how to forge-weld?

[MattBower]

Have you tried getting in touch with your local ABANA affiliate?


THE BADGER BLACKSMITH

Pres: Paul Branch
1310 - 216th Ave.
New Richmond, WI 54107
(715) 248-7788
pbranch@frontiernet.net

Ed: John Grump
5890 Prill Road
Eau Claire, WI 54701
715-835-0894
johngrump@att.net

[Thomas Dean]

Bob Patrick says that it took him over a year to get a weld to stick...and he is one the best at it, if not the best.
Don't get discouraged, only leads to frustration, and the next step is you usually will quit trying.
Do as Matt has suggested, join a local ABANA group...saves on the hair !

[Ted T]

What type of fuel do you use?

Step #1. Do not get discouraged
Step #2. Remember exactly the conditions of everything you have done to this point so you can correct it.
Step #3. Ask your self some questions:
a. If you use a coal /coke forge, remember the conditions of the fire you were using.
b. where did you position the steel in the fire?, in the oxidizing or the caberizing zone? or the sweet spot?
c. Did you bring your steel over to the anvil and place your steel peaces in place for welding quickly,
and without heat loss by aligning the steel quickly or placing the steel on a cold anvil?
d. Was you fire clean and clear of clinkers?
e. Was your steel heated up "Uniformally" and hot enough.
f. Was your steel clean?
g. Did you flux properly?
Step #4. Do not get discouraged.

Now forgive this question, but it is very important.
Was your first hammer blow a firm (non-rebound) dead hammer type blow ??
If you hit it to hard, the steel reacts to the rebound as does the hammer, and will not allow the weldment to occur properly.
It needs that critical quick moment of firming force to allow the steel to merge.
Think in terms of a FIRM,Well placed, deadblow type of first strike. - - Now that is only my opinion, but It changed how I welded!!
I have seen a blacksmith from the UK who takes two peices of mild steel, and slaps them togeather and creats a weldment
that is strong, and that is with out flux!

I watched Bob Patrick very carefully, I was all eyes. He has practaced so much that it is a second nature process with him.
I agree that you should find a good blacksmith to show you how to do it correctly.
It will save you a ton of time, money and frustration!
Good luck to you!
Ted Throckmorton

[Maillemaker]

Well, here's what I do know, since it seems easier than listing all the things I don't know:

Fuel: hardwood charcoal
Flux: 20 Mule Team Borax
Stock: 3/8" Mild steel

I'm working on a length of chain for a recreation of 1700's leg irons. I'm working at a camp that has a Pirate theme this summer, and my director would like the prop for skits and such.

I really don't know enough to weld successfully; hence the quest to find someone I can learn from.

[Jonned]

First I would suggest you find a book that shows the shape of the scarfs for chain links. "The Blacksmiths Craft" now from a US publisher, used to be from COSIRA in England, has a good section on chain links.

Second, can you recognize welding heat? It is easy to test for welding heat by placing 2 pieces of steel that have been fluxed into the fire. Bring them up to heat slowly, in a reducing fire, to white hot. Then, just as they give off a few sparks and look wet, if you touch them together while still in the fire, they should stick if everything else is ok. For an effective reducing fire you need a good bed of fuel below your work, for heat and also to consume the oxygen. Also a layer of fuel over your work doesn't hurt, same reason. Air into the fire should not be excessive, slow and steady to bring the heat up gradually. Two reasons for this, allows the consumption of the oxy by the fuel and gives your work a chance to heat right through its thickness.

Third practice a few simple faggot welds. Take 2 pieces of hot rolled steel 1/4" x 1/2" x 12" (this is a good size stock, not too heavy but more importantly not to light). Fold one in half and slip the straight one into the fold of the other. You now have a sandwich of 3 layers with a single layer to hold onto. They will probably swivel a bit, but you just have to get them in the fire, flux a bit when hot and then bring the heat up slow and steady. Once they reach white hot, the surface will look wet and give off a couple of sparks, they will be stuck together and you can then carefully take it out and quickly hammer the layers together with rapid light blows. Do not get greedy and try to heat or hammer much more than a couple of inches each time. I tell my students to take only one hammer face in length each welding heat. Then take a few subsequent welds and each time move along the sandwich with hammer blows overlapping the end of the previous weld. Avoid hammering on any unwelded area that is not at welding heat. It is important to realize that the first few blows are welding not forging blows, rapid, firm and light. You are trying to bring the surfaces into contact, not change the shape of the metal yet. This should give you some welding experience on something that is not valuable, as it is just a practice piece.

If it was easy anybody could do it. Keep at it and you ought to get it.
Jonathan

[Maillemaker]

Tried welding again last night. I went through each step methodically, remembering the advise you guys gave me. I got two welds to set! Which is great, because I only made two links. I definitely wasn't letting the steel get hot enough before. I looked around on the forum, and someone said that the steel should blend in with the coals.

I'm just ecstatic that I got two welds to set in a row.

Now, refining the joint. The last thing I want to do is destroy the weld that I've finally made. Any special tricks to making the welds look better?

[ciladog]

First I would suggest you find a book that shows the shape of the scarfs for chain links. "The Blacksmiths Craft" now from a US publisher, used to be from COSIRA in England, has a good section on chain links.

Second, can you recognize welding heat? It is easy to test for welding heat by placing 2 pieces of steel that have been fluxed into the fire. Bring them up to heat slowly, in a reducing fire, to white hot. Then, just as they give off a few sparks and look wet, if you touch them together while still in the fire, they should stick if everything else is ok. For an effective reducing fire you need a good bed of fuel below your work, for heat and also to consume the oxygen. Also a layer of fuel over your work doesn't hurt, same reason. Air into the fire should not be excessive, slow and steady to bring the heat up gradually. Two reasons for this, allows the consumption of the oxy by the fuel and gives your work a chance to heat right through its thickness.

Third practice a few simple faggot welds. Take 2 pieces of hot rolled steel 1/4" x 1/2" x 12" (this is a good size stock, not too heavy but more importantly not to light). Fold one in half and slip the straight one into the fold of the other. You now have a sandwich of 3 layers with a single layer to hold onto. They will probably swivel a bit, but you just have to get them in the fire, flux a bit when hot and then bring the heat up slow and steady. Once they reach white hot, the surface will look wet and give off a couple of sparks, they will be stuck together and you can then carefully take it out and quickly hammer the layers together with rapid light blows. Do not get greedy and try to heat or hammer much more than a couple of inches each time. I tell my students to take only one hammer face in length each welding heat. Then take a few subsequent welds and each time move along the sandwich with hammer blows overlapping the end of the previous weld. Avoid hammering on any unwelded area that is not at welding heat. It is important to realize that the first few blows are welding not forging blows, rapid, firm and light. You are trying to bring the surfaces into contact, not change the shape of the metal yet. This should give you some welding experience on something that is not valuable, as it is just a practice piece.

If it was easy anybody could do it. Keep at it and you ought to get it.
Jonathan

Welcome to the party.

[Ric Furrer]

You are welcome to my shop in Sturgeon Bay for a few hours and I can walk you through the basics of a forge-weld....but first I need to know who you are and some background on what you have been doing in smithing.
I have spent much time in helping others only to have them drop the craft shortly after...i would rather put my energies and time toward those who will stay active in the trade.

I just did a demo for UMBA at a meeting in South Beloit where I did a fair bit of forge-welding...I would think there are smiths in your area...they may be a better resource than I given the distance.

Ric

[Maillemaker]

....but first I need to know who you are and some background on what you have been doing in smithing.

Thank you for the offer, and I understand completely.

I have always been interested in medieval European history. I first started fooling around with hot metal with a rusty fencepost heated in a campfire, and worked on a nicked, dented railroad track anvil with a ball-peen hammer with a head so loose I was mortally afraid that it would fly off and break something. But that was years ago.

At Akela's World Cub Scout Camp, in 2007, I had the privilege to demonstrate some blacksmithing techniques. I was fifteen, and really hadn't developed any real skill, but I had a basic understanding.

At UW-Platteville, I was lucky enough to meet the president of the blacksmithing club, Patrick Biggin. Those forging meetings really helped me come into my own. I was soon one of the most skilled of the new members, and I was in line to succeed as president. I also went to the Macabee Hammer-in 2010, where I met Adlai Stein.

I also worked for LFC Forgeworks, LLC. Actually, I was roommates with two of the co-owners, Andrew Leonard, and Jake Larabee, and I volunteered to help make their copper roses.

Right now, I'm living outside Antigo, Wisconsin, taking classes at the Northcentral Technical College.

[Ric Furrer]

Thank you for the offer, and I understand completely.

I have always been interested in medieval European history. I first started fooling around with hot metal with a rusty fencepost heated in a campfire, and worked on a nicked, dented railroad track anvil with a ball-peen hammer with a head so loose I was mortally afraid that it would fly off and break something. But that was years ago.

At Akela's World Cub Scout Camp, in 2007, I had the privilege to demonstrate some blacksmithing techniques. I was fifteen, and really hadn't developed any real skill, but I had a basic understanding.

At UW-Platteville, I was lucky enough to meet the president of the blacksmithing club, Patrick Biggin. Those forging meetings really helped me come into my own. I was soon one of the most skilled of the new members, and I was in line to succeed as president. I also went to the Macabee Hammer-in 2010, where I met Adlai Stein.

I also worked for LFC Forgeworks, LLC. Actually, I was roommates with two of the co-owners, Andrew Leonard, and Jake Larabee, and I volunteered to help make their copper roses.

Right now, I'm living outside Antigo, Wisconsin, taking classes at the Northcentral Technical College.

Do you have a name?

I donated the gas forge at UW-Platteville Engineering Dept... Prof. Kyle Metzloff is a friend of mine...known him for 19 years or so.
I corresponded a bit with the Art Dept there, but never really came to anything. They have a coal forge.

I know of Pat....we may have met once..I forget now...we have corresponded a bit though.

I am about 140 miles East of you.
Ric

[Randy]

I'm teaching a class in May at Peters Valley in Layton, NJ, on "Forge Welding Simplified". I know it's not Wisconsin, but the main thing is putting the time into it. There's only two things you can do wrong. It's either too hot or it's too cold. Forget the hype about it and just do it! It's fun!

[Ric Furrer]

I There's only two things you can do wrong.

I understand what you are trying to say Randy, but solid phase welding is quite a bit more complicated than hot and cold, but I may have had more issues with the technique than most.

Certainly when starting out you need to keep the concepts, explanations and techniques simple, but at some point discussions of angstrom distance, interface diffusion, oxide films, forgeability related to yield strengths and such come into play. Such things are far from simple...at least in my experience.

Ric

[Maillemaker]

Why, yes, now that I think of it, I do have a name.

Jordan Bahr

I've worked with that coal forge, and it's nice, but a bit small. The problem is that we ran out of coal in April of 2010, and had to substitute hardwood charcoal. It was definitely a balancing act with five different people all wanting to forge at the same time.