Dodge Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 My welders, a 220v stick, a 220v with gas MIG, a 110v flux core MIG, and a plaz all share the same steel cart. This makes quite a mess of leads with each having it's own ground and business lead. Does anyone foresee a problem cutting all the grounds short and grounding them to the cart and then use one long common ground cable? It would eliminate about half of the spagettii, but I wanted to make sure there wouldn't be a problem with the machines themselves. The plaz machines typically have a much smaller ground cable than a welder. My plaz only has about a 12 gauge wire; as does all but the biggest ones I have used. Is there any problem using a bigger ground? Can you have too much ground?? I know some will remember that I asked this question on the chat a while back but I don't remember if anyone saw a negative issue with it (no pun intended ) Thanks, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edge9001 Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Scott, as long as the ground is suffiecient for each item, then I don't forsee any problems, just make sure it is a large enough ground for the biggest thing attached. I am by no means an authority, so someone might disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy seale Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 hey dodge. i don't see any probs. with a common ground, but i wouldn't ground to the cart. i would pig tail them togather in a isolated box,using copper connectors,and, a bolt,loc washers. make sure all surfaces are clean and shiny.and well insulated. but like all advice...ya get what you pay for..and this is free.. so i hope it is right and helps you, jimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Dodge, I worked for a large structural steel contractor a long time ago erecting high rise buildings and they had a semi trailer with a eight pack of welders in it. They all used a common ground. All the welders grounds 1/0 leads were bolted to a copper block then they ran one 4/0 and it might have been larger than that to the base of the building then we would run the stingers up the side to ever we were working. This work fine for stick welding they all were constant current machines. All the flux core machines out of the trailer had to run there own grounds due to constant voltage machines. If you are running just one machine at a time it should not be a problem. If you did have a problem with one machine it could short back to the others through the ground though. Something to think about there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 Thanks for the input guys. Where I used to work, everything was grounded to the fixtures we set the product up and welded off on. The whole building was grounded it seems Jimmy, I like the idea of isolating the grounds. In theory, I would try to not run more that one machine at a time. Chances of running more than one welder at a time is slim, but its possible that I may run the plaz and any given welder on the same project. I'll just have to be careful to shut one off while running the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 I think you will find all stick machines are constant current MIG are constant voltage. If your machine are newer machines with printed circuit boards and solid state equipment I would not chance it. I teach welding in a prison and we have about 40 welders. The older machines with manual switches and controls will take lots of abuse. Solid state circuits are very touchy about stray voltage and current. We lost a couple of expensive circuit boards when stick welders and inverter based migs were used on the same trailer at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted October 9, 2010 Author Share Posted October 9, 2010 I think you will find all stick machines are constant current MIG are constant voltage. If your machine are newer machines with printed circuit boards and solid state equipment I would not chance it. I teach welding in a prison and we have about 40 welders. The older machines with manual switches and controls will take lots of abuse. Solid state circuits are very touchy about stray voltage and current. We lost a couple of expensive circuit boards when stick welders and inverter based migs were used on the same trailer at the same time. Peacock, Was the loss due to the welders being actually welded with at the same time or simply being grounded to the same ground? I suppose I should consult vendors or even the manufacturer of each machine. The stick machine is an old Lincoln AC "tomb stone" but the plaz and the two MIGs are less than 10 or so years old maybe 12 on the 220 unit. I sure don't want to take any chances. OTOH, would it be any difference if one had a steel welding table and had the welders all grounded to the same table? Or would that be a bad idea for the same reason. Does anybody do this? or do you not keep the ground of one machine on the table while using another? Separate tables for cutting and welding? Thanks again Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 One grounding lead with a quick disconnect on the end that`s bolted to the cart. Short pigtails with QDs on each of the machines. That way only one machine runs at a time and all the others are completely disconnected and isolated from any power. I also have a different shelf/tray for each of the different welding set ups and all but the mig routed thru the side of the cart and pulled off the tray as needed,having the tray on drawer slides helped.After the job`s done they`d get coiled and placed back on the tray,pushed back in and latched. Nothing worse than having loops of cable hangin` off the sides waiting to get hung up on everything you try to pass by. I learned this from working as the maintenance welder in a manufacturing plant where I`d have to thread my way thru the machines to get to where I needed to weld.Brought all the gear on one cart because the work order/ticket usually just said;"My machine`s broke,send the welder". Made both my first one and present one from the cabinet portion of an industrial janitor`s cart.I cut down the platform area where they would have suspended the trash bag and that now holds the tanks of shield gas.They have killer strong casters and most carts are made out of stainless.Hardest part was cleaning all the gunk out of the wheels. Ask your local hospital,they gave me the one I`m using.It even came with the key for the door and cool pictures of muscle cars inside the door.I left the one Camaro sticker on it. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Kinda of hard to know the exact moment that things went south, but I am pretty sure they were welding at the time,but I know they were on and grounds connected. Warranty did cover the first time but not the second when they found out they were hooked up in "series" as they said, I say parallel. We do have seven welding booths made of steel all welded together in a row. They are hooked up and welding at the same time and have been for 15 years. with no problems. All are older stick/TIG machines no solid state. Bobs idea of the quick disconnect sound great. I think that would solve the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted October 9, 2010 Author Share Posted October 9, 2010 That sounds like a neat setup Bob. I didn't work maintenance, but I did work as a welder in a manufacturing plant so I know all too well about the trip hazards and pants grabbers in the plant, I can't imagine trying to push my cart through my old work place . Well it seem as though I have some home work to do. While it has good heavy duty casters, I don't move this cart much; maybe once or twice a year. I do a majority of my welding in the garage. Another point is that I virtually never use more than one welder at the same time. It’s usually the case of one MIG and the plaz, or the stick welder and the plaz. After thinking about the way I usually do things, I realize I don't often ground to the same place either. I usually ground the plaz directly to the work, cut, and then put the ground away. The weld ground, I will ground to my vise stand for small work or, again, directly to the work (I don't have a steel welding table). The more I think about it, the more I think I may just make a hanger for each set of leads and live with it. Currently the leads from one MIG and the stick share the same hook. The plaz gun hangs on the corner of the cart with its ground having the only dedicated hook (mainly due to its gauge and the issue of easy tangle). The other MIG leads hang on the other corner of the cart. My original thought was to buy a few copper ground lugs and a bolt. Now, given the potential damage to my machines and the expense to avoid it; not to mention the time I could use for actually working on a “real” project, I may just be better off leaving things as is other than to make a couple more hooks. Thanks again for everyone’s input! Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatdaddy Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Bob's idea is the way I would do it. I was going to post the same thing until I read his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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