Rosco Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick L. Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I've found that you need to pack the coal down and don't stay on the blower if you want to localize an area and not collapse the fire. If there is a lot of space as the coal cokes break it up and pack it down, then mound up some coal and wet it to form a cave type atmosphere then your heat will be localized. You can poke a hole right through without destroying it if your careful . I'm by no means a pro but just passing on what I've experienced. There might well be an easier way Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Do not stick your steel down into the fire, lay it across your forge. Use a large pile of coal/coke heap it up over your steel go easy on the blast, and control the shape of the fire with water. you are after a long narrow, deep fire. Be patient with your coal fire also most of us are in a hurry to heat our steel. let it soak. As you water the edges of the coal it will turn to coke. As the fuel burns out below your work push the coke from the ede of the fire down into the lower part of the fire pot. By having fuel over your steel an inch or two deep it keeps the heat in the work and oxygen away from your work. When you stick the work piece into the fire on an angle you are putting the end of it into an oxygen rich zone as a result the end of it is burning off. Keep it level with the top of the forge and be patient. I know all this sounds complicated but after a while it will become routine. It takes longer to explain it than to do it. When you water your fire sprinkle it don't pour on lots af water just enough to keep the coal from burning. good luck it takes a while to learn to manage a coal fire but the results are worth the effort. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Browne Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 If your forge is like mine and of no particular historic value then cut some slots into the sides so you can pass long work through them and the fire at the same time. Then you don't have to try poking down into the fire (not a good idea as you have found) or bending your piece to get the heat where you want it either. With the slots you can have a "normal" fire and not worry about building the furnace from hell to get the heat up higher. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_edge2 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 yep as rmcpb, said cut your slots to get the job down to the fire, is what i used to do,or use more coal, and shape a fire with water. i use charcoal now so have a shallow pot for that exact reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 Thanks for the advice. I already have slots, but when I lay the rod across the top of the fire box, the heat of the fire is a couple inches below that level. I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 It takes some time to become skillful at managing your coal fire. It is a lovely fire to work with when you get it going though. I do sometimes angle my rods down a bit, BUT I have learned to keep the main fire below them and to adjust my blast so that my coal fire very rarely eats my work anymore (I also have a pretty deep fire pit). The use of water is essential with my coal. I used to have the same problems that you are now but they disappeared as I learned to manage my fire and I no longer have to expend much thought or energy to do so. I have worked with gas forges a little and I believe them to be somewhat easier to learn to use. In time and with experience though I think that coal is KING! Of course if you have both types available that is the ideal situation. The gas forges seem to me to have some advantage in making long even heats and when you just need to do some small projects quickly (it takes a few minutes longer and is more wasteful to use coal that way). I like to have one or a few large chunks of coke amalgam to use as a roof or lid for my fire. That helps to keep the heat in the iron. I am constantly making new material for this lid in the ring around my fire and break out new chunks as I need them. Give yourself time and keep working, you will find things smoothing out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 When I need a taller fire I use firebricks on edge to highten the fire... and to limit the fuel consumption.. that and water to confine the fire size and promote coking... also keeping fuel over the work as insulation will help.. also lower blast ... good luck Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Peacock has got the idea. Don't try to save coal; cone it up around the fire. An old blacksmithing text says that the fire should be 1) DEEP; 2)clean; and 3)compact. Deep means that the coke bed should be about a 6" or 7" column in an ordinary firepot. If you're a skilled smith, you'll have your piece in the fire horizontally, unless it has an odd shape that won't allow it. You will not be able to see your workpiece, as it will be covered with an inch or so of hot coke. The coke on top acts as a refractory giving you a much quicker heat than if you just lay your work on top of a flat, lowdown, crappy fire. Beginners wonder how they can see the heat, if the work is hidden. You can occasionally draw it back to take a quick peek. Sometimes, you can make a peep hole in the top of the surrounding coke. With experience, you'll get a mental alarm set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crij Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) Roscoe, Come on down to the `Bring a friend Blacksmith Day' at the Connecticut Eastern Railroad Museum in Willimantic, Ct, on Sat. Nov 7th. There you can talk with other blacksmiths, see how it is done (cave, valley and bridge fires), and if a forge is open, try it yourself (and/or bring your forge and anvil if you can). The Bring a Friend day is an annual event we hold, after the museum season ends, for the smiths in the area. It originally started as an CBG/NEB (Connecticut Blacksmith Guild/New England Blacksmiths) event, but is open to anyone. Basically a day of smacking metal, BS-ing with other blacksmiths, and introducing interested people to the community of smithing. Fires tend to start about 9:30, and some of us don't leave the museum till dusk, even though `officially' the day is 10-2. If this was 2 weeks ago, I would have said come on down to the Brooklyn (Ct) Fair, as we have a 2 forge shop and were demonstrating all 4 days. Usually when I am running a firepot forge, I build a bridge of coke. Basically start the fire, pile the coal on till it is about 5-6 inches above the deck. Sprinkle water down the left and right side and across the center (from left to right). When the bridge area starts smoking again, you repeat the water. When you start to see a glow through the coal pieces on the side(s) that you didn't water, then you start to pick coal/coke pieces out to form the cave. Now you can start to work the ends of your piece. By the time you have worked a couple of points the cave should have grown across the pot and you can pick out pieces from the other side and form the tunnel. As the fire burns the coal/coke, you pop new coke off the interior wall of the cave to feed the fire and new coal goes on top of the bridge and gets watered. Most of the coal I use is dust to 3/4" across. If you use larger pieces, it will be harder to maintain the bridge. With a little practice, you will even be able to pull the dragon turds out of the bottom of the pot without disturbing the bridge. If I am using my Rivet forge (flat bottom forge) I will usually build a valley fire, which is built the came way except the coal is piled on either side and is pushed towards the Tuyere as the coke is burnt. Top of the pile is 5-8 inches off the pan with 2-3 inches of burning coke over the tuyere and the walls are 2-3" apart where the metal goes. A valley fire works almost as good as a bridge fire for heating long or heavy pieces. Take care, Rich Cizik MoW Foreman Blacksmith Shop Co-Head Ct Eastern RR Museum Willimantic, Ct 06226Connecticut Eastern Railroad Museum Rich Cizik Website Maintainer Connecticut Blacksmith GuildCONNECTICUT BLACKSMITH GUILD : ABANA (Artist Blacksmith Association of North America) affiliate. Edited September 8, 2009 by crij Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Thanks everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I am going to have to try to get there too!! CERM.. I don't live far from there..... so little time....!! When I said to put the firebricks on edge to save coal... I built a shallow forge.. so when I needed to work long stuff I could use firebricks... they keep my coal from falling on the ground... I use plenty to burn ..but it does my lawn no good..... plenty to burn.. and plenty for insulation.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 CBrann, I get you on the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crij Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Hope to see you guys there. Not sure which forge I will be using, but you will know me by the flag painted Trenton anvil. Such sweet music those forged anvils sing... Rich C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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