200mphbusa Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Gents--I am in the final throes of completing a propane forge. I am planning to line it with Kaowool. I am also planning to coat the Kaowool with Plistix 900. I have two questions, if I may impose on you for a moment of your time. 1. If I coat the Kaowool will it tend to stiffen up some such that it will stay against the side of the forge? I am using a 12" dia. pipe and I would like this stuff to stay against the sides of the pipe. See the photo below. The reason the brick is labeled is because I needed to dedifferentiate it from the lower temp bricks (jezz these things are expensive). 2. Would you recommend any form of bonding agent that would withstand the temps and "stick the Kaowool to the inside of the pipe? In advance thank for your time and assistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Welcome aboard, glad to have ya. The easiest way to keep Kaowool in a pipe forge is cut it a little long and let compression hold it in place. I don't know about Plistex 900 but there are stiffeners available it just takes some reading on their web sites. How about a couple pics of your burners, I haven't seen any quite like those before. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
200mphbusa Posted September 7, 2009 Author Share Posted September 7, 2009 Here's a few shots of the burner. Can't say this is my design, I copied it from the instructor that I took a blacksmith class from, Gordon Williams. It's pretty self explanatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McCarthy Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Plastix 900F is a great product. I have used it for years in repairing the refractory of wood fired boilers. When I built my gasser I did exactly what you are asking. I used 2" of wool and covered with about 1/8" of 900F. One nice thing about 900F is that you can mix it to any consistancy you want. I have used it from "thin paint" to "sticky oatmeal". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
200mphbusa Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 Steve--thanks, it is good to know before using it. May I ask on other question, before applying it did you fire up and dry out the Kaowool or insulation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 How do your burners work for you? I have seen a similar set now that I've gotten a closer look. My connection is in the tank at the moment so I'm not getting to look at many pics unless I want to go do something else while it loads. Anyway, did you do the machining yourself? Have you had problems getting the jets aligned and set to the correct depth? Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
200mphbusa Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 Frosty--did all the machining myself, with a lathe, mill, welders, plasma cutter and chop saws, I can knock a lot of different fabrication. I have not fired it up yet, but have used similar versions, a photo or two is attached. Now having read up and found out a lot more info, I probably should have angled the burners, I should have also made the inside pipe replaceable, right now it is all one piece up to the elbow. Oh well, it's called experience. The alignment wasn't too bad I did all the pipe work (connections) first then measured center to center and build everything off that dimension. I plan to fire it up at night so I can see the flame and then adjust the nozzle in or our via the threaded rod. The nozzles are 0.030 MIG tips from my Miller MIG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 What's the tube size? I use 0.035" mig tips in a 3/4" burner and 0.045" in a 1" burner. I use my lathe to align everything but make individual burners. Tuning can be a matter of a few thousandths one way or another so having two adjust with one screw, etc. means having to hold really tight tolerances. This is the "T" burner I build, takes about 15 mins. not including tune time. Because of minute variations in plumbing pipe sometimes one will be in tune first time I fire it up, some take up to 20 mins. or so to get right. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McCarthy Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Steve--thanks, it is good to know before using it. May I ask on other question, before applying it did you fire up and dry out the Kaowool or insulation? The wool blanket will burn if exposed to direct flame. It's only purpose is insulation and must have some sort of covering before adding fire. As long as the wool has been kept dry it should be fine. After applying the 900F let it air dry over night. There is no need for a bake out as with pound in refractory plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 The wool blanket will burn if exposed to direct flame. It's only purpose is insulation and must have some sort of covering before adding fire. As long as the wool has been kept dry it should be fine. After applying the 900F let it air dry over night. There is no need for a bake out as with pound in refractory plastic. Sorry, I can't agree with that. I've seen and used Kao-wool lined forges from these little ones up to rather large industrial ones. Out of hundreds I've only seen a dozen or so that had anything applied over the blanket. They work just as well. Sealing the blanket is mostly a health concern. I've done 3 foot X 3 foot X 5 foot both ways and didn't see any difference in performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McCarthy Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Sorry, I can't agree with that. I've seen and used Kao-wool lined forges from these little ones up to rather large industrial ones. Out of hundreds I've only seen a dozen or so that had anything applied over the blanket. They work just as well. Sealing the blanket is mostly a health concern. I've done 3 foot X 3 foot X 5 foot both ways and didn't see any difference in performance. I'll concede 2 points. 1) My experience with gas forges is limited, and 2) burn was a poor choice of words. My experience with insulation and refractory material comes from dealing with industrial wood fired boilers that operate in the 2200 to 2400 degree range for months on end. In that harsh environment unprotected Kao wool will deteriorate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
200mphbusa Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 Steve and nakedanvil--thanks for the info and the thoughts concerning the coating. I am going to go ahead and coat it for several reasons: first it is going to be kept outside and where I live, the wool will make an outstanding bed for all sorts of critters including scorpions (which I would love to cook). Secondly, I feel this would help it keep it's shape and stay up against the pipe. lastly, I think this would simply help protect it from the occasional pokes placing steel in and out of the forge. Again many thanks for sharing your experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 There are a lot of uncontrolled byproducts in a wood fire so it's not surprising Kaowool wouldn't do well unprotected. Another very good reason to coat any ceramic wool refractory is to encapsulate the particles. They constitute a breathing hazard as in silicosis and mesotheleoma. (sp?) Sure, a small operation like a home made forge won't put a lot of particulates in the air but why take chances when the fix is so easy. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liuzengli Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Sorry, I don't see why the picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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