james_leland Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) Well they won't let me go home to build one so I built it out here. It is made out 1/4" flat plate and 1/4" 2" X 2" angle iron, the pipe is 1 1/2" ID, it stands 3' 4" tall. The Top is 1' 3" X 1' 4", and the bottom of the pan is 1' X 1'. The pan is 4" deep. I know it needs a little touching up, but it will have to wait till I get home, so I can sand blast it. And I need to re-weld the seams with my mig welder. I will try it out tomorrow. All I have on the boat is the charcoal (kingsford). If there are any improvements I would love to hear them, this is my first one. Edited September 5, 2009 by james_leland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 pretty sweet man, for out there on the high seas. Must be a great way to pass the time out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_edge2 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 awesome! call it capt. Ahab...looks like it has a wooden leg. i would probly dome a piece of sheet for the drain and make some 1/4 " holes although what you have done will work. if you cut some slots for your long work to go through to get it lower, eg. to heat a long piece, you only need to be about 20mm above the drain covered in charcoal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 awesome! call it capt. Ahab...looks like it has a wooden leg. i would probly dome a piece of sheet for the drain and make some 1/4 " holes although what you have done will work. if you cut some slots for your long work to go through to get it lower, eg. to heat a long piece, you only need to be about 20mm above the drain covered in charcoal. Erm... 20mm fire depth with charcoal will make for a pretty oxidising fire. Yes it will probably heat the work but not that quickly and you'll get a fair amount of scaling. From memory you need about 8 diameters of charcoal to get a neutral fire -- therefore if your charcoal is one half inch diameter you need 4 inches of fire depth to give a neutral fire, and the same above it. I've only ever used one bottom-blast forge (I built it) but a lot of what I read from experienced smiths indicates that 1-3 slots are better than several holes; they clog less and the blast can be controlled a little better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_edge2 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) firstly, you advice is correct, yes deep for more of a neutral thing, or larger jobs, but for small (and most) jobs 20 -30 mm is fine, i, dont want to waste that much charcoal and water. and control blast, not without scale if you want blast. i only have fires that big when im doing big steel or casting. and even then, 4 inches above the air?even big jobs sit an inch or two at most. i like lots of holes, more even distribution at lower volume and pressure and i get, the focus of clean heat where i want it without using a collars or water or wasting a third of a bag of charcoal every heat. 3 hole you lose one or two from cloging as i have had experience with (using the slots thing i saw off ebay and had to make one cos they looked cool) and i have to stop and kill the furnace to clear the clog or put up with the black spot. my knives and the like turn out fine for me, and at a low idle, i cant hear the forge running. i started with coal and coke for a couple of years and had to go to charcoal for a lack of availability and though have only been using charcoal for 7 or 8 years, wrong or ill advised you seem to gesture, as picked up from guys like graham watson and the like with charcoal, i like, and instruct the way i was steered. but whatever works for whoever, use it. im done, ok for all experts to throw stones now:D Edited September 5, 2009 by double_edge2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 The metric is throwing me off... 20mm is less than an inch, is it not? 30mm just over an inch? We're talking a layer of charcoal (not metallurgical coke, but charcoal) about as thick as a man's thumb?:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_edge2 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) The metric is throwing me off... 20mm is less than an inch, is it not? 30mm just over an inch? We're talking a layer of charcoal (not metallurgical coke, but charcoal) about as thick as a man's thumb?:confused: yes an inch.....sorry, if dont have enough knowledge and ive been doing it all wrong, please let me know and ill be happy to instantly keep doing it my way:D ,,, i cant run anything 4 inches (100mm) above the drain except the top part of bigger steel. the new longer forge has a 20mm dip (no deeper) so i can sit on top and i can build up if i like. the hot piece sat "in", the proto type which was 1 inch deep. it is about 20" long by 2" wide by 3/4 thick. 20mm heaps for minimum and 1-and a bit inches for the bottom of the big jobs at most for me, unless casting. this is what works for me. the first pic the top would be 2-3 inches above the drain. i use a collar for casting to ensure the crucible is covered for 2 and 3 kilo melt of copper.....ill get a pic... im wrong, the drain to the top on my normal forge would be total inch and a bit maybe 2 inches. and i have never had the bootom of a job (hammers and the like) sit anywhere near the top lip(thats why i had to cut my flaps/slots at iether side to get long stuff low enough to heat without wasting a heap of charcoal) . the casting collar is about 4 inches deep and is half a wheel rim i hacked up with the plasma. the only steel i did with the collar on was 4" X 4" peice of h/c to see if i could saturate it for welding and a casting test. Edited September 6, 2009 by double_edge2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 I've never tried so thin a layer of fuel. Got to add it to my list of things to try! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_edge2 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 oh hey, im sure if i had an endless supply of charcoal for free i might use charcoal like coal, or try a different way...but here unless youre on a huge tree'd property making your own, its about $25 to $30 a bag.(and the bags are getting smaller!) and coal i hear from the guys around is $100 for a 44 gal drum or $250 a ton if you are in a click. i used to pay seven dollars a bag!...actually, good thread topic.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 I'm liking your forge Double Edge, looks to be very versatile! I'm not saying you're wrong, we all work differently and if you're happy and it works that's all that matters. I'm no expert and don't seek to depict myself as such, you have more years' forging under your belt than me! All I'm saying is when I used to burn charcoal it took me a while to get out of the habit of using a shallow fire, and it helped enormously. I would agree, careful control of the blast is a very important part of fire maintenance especially with charcoal and it can help reduce scaling. Nothing wrong with charcoal. If I could get a consistent supply of UK-burned charcoal it's what I'd go with. Smithing coke is about 50p/Kilo (soaking wet) at the moment, the price advantage over charcoal is... narrowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_edge2 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) I'm liking your forge Double Edge, looks to be very versatile! I'm not saying you're wrong, we all work differently and if you're happy and it works that's all that matters.. and please, to all, that i would consider to be blacksmiths, i consider myself, at most, a pretend blacksmith and have never tried to over honor myself with the title "Blacksmith" i just muck around alot. and yes i agree. when i started money and availability was the issue, i liked coal, when the cheap coal stopped i had to change. its a habbit developed from not wanting to waste any more than i had to with charcoal. now i think its impatience, used to have to light then quench as forging, and quench when finnished to conserve. spent weeks over winter making it and didnt like wasting it. so a smaller fire became the norm unless soaking bigger jobs. scale is at times plentiful with the higher heat and scarce at a lower heat. best invention i think was the cordless angle grinder with a wire brush on it.:D Edited September 6, 2009 by double_edge2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_edge2 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) and my apologies james leland, for allowing myself to be ....distracted into,... not your thread.....nice forge bloke, awesome from what you had available, however you run it. Edited September 6, 2009 by double_edge2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_leland Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 Its alright with me, now I have some more tips to try when I get home, I like the idea of a shallow fire.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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