Charlotte Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Product Claims from web site : offered as infromation only What do you want in an anvil? * steel alloy * hard, smooth face * conical horn * narrow heel * step * 1" hardie hole * pritchel hole * the right weight * the right price Rhino™ anvils are made from Chrome/Manganese/molybdenum alloy steel, in a design tailored to suit American blacksmithing techniques. These anvils are oil-quenched for maximum depth of hardness. Face hardness and horn hardness is HRC 54. The Rhino anvil has a machined, polished face with a tapered radius on the edges. The horn is machined to a true cone. The heel is narrow enough and thin enough for those tricky pieces that just don't fit anywhere on an anvil with a rectangular face. Although many European anvil designs have a conical horn, few (if any) have the Rhino's step which is extremely useful for forging pipes, folding small pieces, bracing round stock, and similar operations. A Rhino™ anvil is subjected to a rigorous series of quality tests; and only after it has passed those tests is it engraved with a serial number and offered for sale. Working in the tradition of blacksmiths whose mythical skills propelled the Han Dynasty and Ming Dynasty to dominance in ancient China, our smiths in Northeastern China are dedicated to producing the world's highest quality steel anvils. Standard hardie hole is 1 inch square. 1.125 and 1.25 inch sizes are available as options. We can personalize your anvil with your own logo for an additional $50 if you supply artwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) Well, here's the way I see it. Yes, they had developed iron cast to a high degree, but I don't infer from that, that they didn't have iron and steel forging. I believe that for many items that were forged in the west they were able to substitute high quality cast iron. They made weapons for thousands of years, most of which were steel and it seems to have been very high quality steel too. Have you seen the swords they dug up with the terra-cotta army? Having a well developed foundry industry and a tradition of blacksmithing are not especially mutually exclusive. They may have even had steel and/or wrought anvils, but I imagine many dirt-poor blacksmiths made do with an "adequate" cast iron one. Now sword makers and armorers might have been able to afford steel anvils. What I really want to know is why "smiths in Northeastern China" are casting anvils? Get them blacksmiths out of the foundry! Edited June 27, 2009 by nakedanvil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Seems like for all their manufacturing and cheap labor they could forge impressive anvils, but I think they are stuck in the idea of low cost = high profit which traditionally has suited the chinese for many decades. The problem is low cost usually comes with low quality. I'm guessing these are chinese anvils distributed by a "Rhino Anvils" of Spokanne Washington. (Or at least that is what their website says). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 See my separate thread on Rhino anvils. I now have been able to find a bit of time to start the testing on the large one and the small one. These are excellent anvils! Let there be no doubt about that!! I think I have put a quick snapshot of the mid sized one on the site. Better photos will follow in due course. The only source for these in US is Steve McGrew in Spokane. See the link above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) You'd probably be surprised how man high quality product in your house probably came from China. From what I've seen, it's mostly the importers who insist on cheap junk. When I was in China I was asked by one manufacturer "Why do you Americans like to buy so much cheap junk"? I've been importing induction machines from China for five year now and have had problems with ZERO! Some are in large manufacturing operations running 40 - 100 hours per week! ZERO! I had a modern solid-state American machine that The Boeing Co. paid $45,000.00 for. I sell a comparable Chinese machine for under $3,000.00! Before Chambersburg went belly up, they were quoting $125,000.00 for a 200 lb self contained hammer! I don't think blacksmiths were lining up at their door. In my case it isn't "should I buy American or Chinese" it's "should I buy Chinese or do without"! 100 years ago, the British were crying about cheap American imports. Edited June 27, 2009 by nakedanvil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keykeeper Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Are those actual photos of the anvils at the link shown, or computer renderings? They look too good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 When I was a boy, and I was once, "Made in Japan" meant junk. Now it is the absolute reverse! Many tool companies manufacture in China even brands you associate with being American or European. I know some people on the forum will want to disgaree but it is a fact. Also if your only parameter is "as cheap as possible" then what do you expect?? If, however, you specify copper windings or a particular alloy steel etc. then you get it. You also pay the appropriate price! Are there "Rip off merchants" in China? Yes of course there are. If you want, say for example, power drills making if you take more than a certain number then the factory will ask you what colour you want. Some factories will ask what name you want on them as well! I won't mention names but if you wanted them branded as a leading manufacturer that would be no problem. Just remember, though, that an importer then imports that fake stuff into USA and a retailer retails it. They are the real criminals!! Blaming a Chinese manufacturer is a bit like some of those absurd US law suits where a gun manufacturer is sued for producing a gun which is used in a murder. I would like to add, just to keep the record straight, that I don't work for any Chinese manufacturing companies. I am a teacher in a school here! It is just important that you get a balanced view of life on both sides of the Pacific! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 It is becoming more difficult to generalize about Chinese products. Many are very high quality, many are junk. Most of the time, the products made in China for a Western Company is acceptable quality. Chinese made for a Chinese company is a often a crapshoot. Some Harbor Freight stuff is good, some is not. I would not automatically call Rhino Anvils junk until I saw them. The Russian Anvils were OK but hardly what you call a quality product. Philip, we are waiting for your analysis of these anvils! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 understand this you can make all the parts anywhere in the world. Ship them to USA assemble them here and label them made in USA. Levis,John deere up to about 40hp, Case,cub cadet,RCA,curtis mathis the list goes on. One of GMs plans to reorganize was to build sub compacts overseas. Most automakers own large chunks of forign auto co. I will continue to buy the best value no matter where it comes from. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Why all the testing on the Rino anvils? - Could one not spec what hardness, alloy, and finish to an anvil when originally starting the run of them. Seems like a lot of time and cost to go and cast something that is unknown until "tested". Anvils have been cast for a member here by his design and there doesn't seem to be all the testing involved. Sorry for thinking out loud - but I was just wondering. - JK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) I find it interesting that both under the anvil section and the anvil stake tools section there are no color photographs of these tools they claim to make. In this day and age it doesn't exist without a color photograph, at least not in any real plausible way to customers. Would you buy stake tools from me on ebay from a rendered 3d drawing? Probably not. Doesn't seem very convincing. It does cause you to wonder if these tools have ever actually even been made or if they're just wishful designs. That's why I have multiple color photographs of every stake tool I sell as well as exact specifications and dimensions and a warranty. Point being, no self-respecting blacksmith will pay good money for sight unseen tools and anvils especially when they haven't been tested by years of use from smiths across the globe. Take into consideration a fairly new company like Nimba who has now been around for 16 years, lists all their specs, has pictures of their anvils (albeit not enough on their site, but you can google the web to find more) and is easy to contact and you can even go visit their foundry in Washington. Nimba also has an army of blacksmith customers that can vouch for the high quality and toughness of their anvils. This kind of allegiance is impressive because it takes both time and quality products to develop. From my web searching I couldn't even find a "Rhino Anvils" and I don't know if that is simply the product name of the anvil line made for this company called Incadescent Ironworks, or if there is actually a "Rhino Anvils" company located in China where which Incandesent Ironworks is simply a retailer/importer of these anvils. Maybe Phillip can clarify this? I will agree that you can find high quality stuff in china if you go searching for it and machinery made in china is far better on average (imo) then equipment made in Taiwan or Malaysia. I will agree that most cheap things out of China are developed by American entrepreneurs and Retail giants who place profit far beyond quality. For these types of companies its about getting rich, not about creating the highest quality product. Plus it's hard to say "Buy American" when most things "American Made" are in fact from china and assembled here in the USA. The part I don't like about Chinese products has more to do with the human rights abuses, poor wages, and living standards endured by those that show up everyday to make these products. That is a difficult dilemma to solve and doesn't have an easy answer. Perhaps someone in America who has purchased tools and anvils from Incandescent Ironworks will see this thread and show up here and give us an idea as to the quality and availability of the tools as well as finally deliver us some color photos. Edited June 28, 2009 by Avadon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I wasn't going to send this photo as it isn't very good. When I saw that people thought these didn't exist, however, I thought I probably should! I also have a swage block and a set of anvil stakes but you will just have to accept my word on those! I think the reason Steve has asked me to test the guts out of one of each size is that he doesn't want to accept delivery of a batch until he has had them tested. I presume that this is why but you really need input from him. I am only following orders as the camp guards used to say. As soon as I have the results from the magflux and rebound tests I shall send them to Steve who will probably post them either here or via ABANA. (After that I hope the photo works. I am not very computer savvy). File is too big! I will try again tomorrow. Anyway my fumblings with technology will give somebody a good laugh if nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Avadon, The difficulty in stumbling across Incandecent Iron and Rhino Anvils is why I posted the link. Who ever designed the web page for Incandecent made a few errors in setting it up which mean that it is missed by many standard search engines. It has nothing to do with viability of the products or the Owners accumen. If he wasn't on the west coast I would buy one of his anvils on spec. For me the shipping cost is just too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Avadon, The difficulty in stumbling across Incandecent Iron and Rhino Anvils is why I posted the link. Who ever designed the web page for Incandecent made a few errors in setting it up which mean that it is missed by many standard search engines. It has nothing to do with viability of the products or the Owners accumen. If he wasn't on the west coast I would buy one of his anvils on spec. For me the shipping cost is just too high. Your braver then I am if you'll hand over your credit card to someone who doesn't even have a picture of their product on their site and there is little to no word of mouth about these anvils and no history of their use. They may be great anvils, they may be boat anchors, but my point was that only time will tell the difference between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Your braver then I am if you'll hand over your credit card to someone who doesn't even have a picture of their product on their site and there is little to no word of mouth about these anvils and no history of their use. They may be great anvils, they may be boat anchors, but my point was that only time will tell the difference between the two. Ever hear of chamber of commerce, and credit report? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 OK I have posted a photo of the 3 rhinos in my photos. I hope that at least people now do believe that the things exist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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