roconnor Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Hello, I recently came into ownership of a Lincolnweld Type SAE 150J welder, also known as a a Lincoln Shield-Arc Junior, that I plan to use to build some mobile bases for some heavy machines and a few other relatively light-duty tasks, as well as fabricate some parts and jigs. Its serial no. 53802 seems to date it to 1941, and hard as I tried, its age and indestructability wouldn't let me walk away from it, even though it is 440V only. I am set up in my garage with a 10HP RPC running off a 60amp 220 line, and need to figure out the best way to power this welder. Specs off the plate are: 440V 12A Rating: 30V NEMA 150 amps Initially, I thought I had one option: a step-up transformer - probably 9kVa would do, since I don't do a lot of welding and wouldn't have reason to crank this to full capacity. But I was wondering if there might be a second possibility: take this to a Lincoln repair shop and have the motor rewound (or leads connected) to make it 220V/440V? I haven't poked around inside one of these, so I don't know if this is possible, and I don't have the motor experience to do it myself. Thanks for any advice. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) Good morning and welcome to I Forge Iron. When I am not being a smith I am a union electrician. Trying to provide information for you, I will assume you are in the States, as you didn't declare where you are. Stepping power UP is not efficient, we only do that for small variations of less than 15% to 20% step up. Not only will your transformer get extremely hot because there is also a conversion loss within transformers do to efficiency, but that will cost a lot more than the power you are using at the welder, because you will also pay for the electricity used to make that excessive heat at the transformer. But if you wanted to go that route, you will need a lot more than a transformer that can deliver 480v12a, because at first glance one may think the simple math states the input power should be 240 volts at 24 amps. But first there is NO free lunch, NO 100% effective transfer. That not transferred as electric power is turned into heat. The ability to withstand that load and keep the heat generated to acceptable levels that will not burn up the transformer, means that rather than using a 240v30a supply you would need closer to a 240v60a or higher supply, I would need more than simple name plate ratings of your welder to calculate this. Because there are converters (not really a transformer) that will do this for you, but its not cheap at all to run, and installation costs are more than you might think. IN the long run, due to instillation/operation costs... I would suggest you either have the power company install a new transformer to your shop that will supply 480 volts directly from the main lines, to its own breaker panel (the primary residential lines are from between 4000 and 9000 volts depending on where you live, and you did not tell us) and that's easy to step down to lower voltages, This route is also not cheap, but over the years will cost less than using conversion units. the Best idea may be to clean up that welder and re sell to a place that can supply the needed voltage, using the money from that sale, to buy another welder the correct voltage. note (220 or 440 mentioned are NOT standard voltages in the USA, the name plate label is a minimum power rating for your unit before failure. and FYI standard voltage choices are are 120v 208v 240v 277v 480v 575v) Edited May 12, 2009 by steve sells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 OK, I'm going to show my ignorance here, but when I needed 240 the electrician just ran another 120 line over. I don't suppose he could run two 240s to get 480? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) the power coming to your house technicaly is NOT 120v its actually 240v. To get us a 120v volt line we use only one power line (left or right) from that pair, the other line (normally colored white) is not actually power, but a line to the center tap off the transformer Maybe this wil help. coil of main transformer MWMWMWMWMWMW . . . . . . .| . . . . . . . ./ Left . . Neutral . . . Right . . . . . . . . | . . . . . . . . | . . . . . . . gnd This graphic may or may or may not look right depending on your browser. I added . . . . to assist in positional alignment of things.. the thing is left and right sides are 180- degrees out of phase. when combining 2 (or more) its still 240 volts. the available amps may increase a bit, but voltage is the same. In single phase power. John, Mark... if one of you have a better graphic or picture Please post it. Edited May 12, 2009 by steve sells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roconnor Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 Thanks, Steve. I was hoping for a better alternative, but what you say makes sense. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvus Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) Got you some additional information here about your machine from the Lincoln website - it is the IM131C manual that is downloadable from the Lincoln website. Your machine looks a lot like my DC 250 MK. There is the infomation that will help you on page 3 of the IM131C. Your machine will run on 200 volt. Check the attachments below. Just remove the switch cover and look inside of the cover, there should be a wiring schematic there that help you to rewire the internal wires to get it to run on 220V 3Phase at least and perhaps 2 phase as an option. You will need to change the heater links. Edited May 13, 2009 by harvus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 what is 2 phase? I know about single phase and 3 phase. Uncle Sam never taught me about 2 phase. 30 yr avionics tech. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphonse Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 (edited) Back in the days when the Lincwelder 150J's were made, The voltages in the US were commonly referred to as 110V, 200V, 220V and 440V. A few decades later they were upgraded to 120V, 208V,240V, and 480V. Roconnor said he was set up with a 10 HP "220 V 60 amp" power[compresor?] so his power must be 3 phase to throw a 10 HP unit. If it were single phase, the ONLY way he could run that welder[welder is the 3 phase 10 HP motor generator type] is to use a large phase convertor to change over single phase to 3 phase. You are talking BIG BUCKS for a phase convertor of that capacity. There is a lot of "TALK" and plans on the internet saying you can run 3 phase motors on 2 phase split off of single phase power, but that can't work on a motor this size without burning it out in short order. Now, I may be out of date on this subject, because things are invented every day. This was the case in the late 1970's when I had a Lincwelder 250 amp. DCMK and only single phase power. Edited May 17, 2009 by alfonso clarify 3phase or single phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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