jsurgeson Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Hi All I am a knifemaker, stock removal only till now, I have just finished making my gas forge and acquired a very basic setup. This is my first attempt at any blacksmithing, yes I know I am supposed to learn how to do basic forge work before I try welding/pattern welding/damascus etc. However as my only desire is creating blade steel and not to do blacksmithing in general I thought I would jump in at the deep end. I mostly want to create decorative bits like mokume and contrasting pattern stuff for bolsters etc. I took a 8" piece of 1/4" inch cable and welded it into this rather small bit of usable steel. As you can see 1/2 of it did not get used. This took me about an hour and about 20 heats. Not very good or cost effective as the gas probably cost more than it is worth. :confused: I have to still learn to consistently judge correct temp as I tend to not heat enough and end up breaking weld and having to redo. I quickly ground it a bit with a #220 belt and etched in ferric chloride for 5 mins. Not much contrast is there? Am I likely to get any more. I assume the correct way to finish a piece of cable up is to grind and polish to finished size, then etch in acid? What do you do after etching or is that it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratel10mm Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Ok, if you didn't, then try making the first weld by twisting the cable tighter - it works! Then, use a lot of bits of cable & forge weld them into a larger billet. Yes, polish & etch. Make sure you counter the etchant / clean it off once you're done. Same steels don't make great contrasts - with cable in my limited experience, it's more about the boundary layers creating a pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsurgeson Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 Cheers, thanks for that. I actually did do a twist on first heat to tighten up, I just suck at keeping it all together practice makes perfect I believe :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratel10mm Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 True! Last time I had a go at it, I just twisted every heat until it felt solid (actually, an earlier twist or 2 were trying to corkscrew, so I probably had over done it), then went at it with the hammer. Worked pretty well, but I haven't got it etched (or even ready for finishing) yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Im just guessing here but you are probably working much to cold, I cant look into my gas forge without a no.3 shaded lense when its at welding temp. The other thing is to try and weld a larger diameter piece, it is much easier as it has a higher thermal mass so it doesnt cool so quick! Youve not mentioned it but think about flux. I use household borax, straight from the carton. It foams a bit when applied but its simple and ive got faith in it, which is very important. So, flux just when its starting to turn from black to red, then again when a bit hotter, then again when a bit hotter (you get the idea) I once heard it said its impossible to flux to early, or to often when starting out! (borax is cheap, dont be shy with it!) The flux will start to look like melted butter on a crumpet, or run around like kids on a playground when your at the right temp for welding. (Ive found a no.3 green shade makes judging all these things much easier) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsurgeson Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 Hi John Thanks for that, yes without a doubt I am working too cold. I invested in a 25kg bag of borax (Sodium Tetraborate Decahydrate) as small quantities are very expensive in comparison, which should last me a while I am not shy when using it. I lack patience, and forget that you guys have been doing it for years and I for 1 month. So I need to just practice. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John M Cohea Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Cable does'nt show the pattern really well until after it has been heat treated, at least that has been the case with my experiences with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsurgeson Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) Pity, as I only wanted to make decorative pieces, bolsters/guards etc I would not have hardened it for use as a blade. Think I need to look at cable with brass infusion. next project John by the way checked your site out, some really nice blades, I am jealous :-D Edited April 6, 2009 by jsurgeson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) don't have to be a blade, just that Martensite colors more. If you are worried about it being too hard, then temper at higher temps. but Hardened will have more contrast Edited April 6, 2009 by steve sells typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsurgeson Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 Thanks Steve, will give it a try, just have to remember to drill any pin holes etc before hardening :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 (edited) Jeff,! - if you have the desire and passion, and a willingness to read a lot, think, and practice you can make nice damascus in pretty short time. dont worry to much about the years of experience ! I had never really swung a hammer at a piece of hot metal when I decided I wanted to patternweld. I have been at it less than 18 months total now (forging at most every 2 weeks, often not for months) and am starting to get some reasonable results, . below are my last 2 out of the forge (and ive never made an 'S' hook - ive also put up a pic of my vertical welding forge. I cant repeat this enough for anyone wanting to patterweld, your gas forge has to be screaming hot! get this right and the rest will fall into place. If it aint hot enough you are always going to struggle, no matter how good you are! Edited April 7, 2009 by John N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmercier Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 There's also a trick to etching cable damascus. True it will etch better after it's been hardened, but also the way you etch needs to be different than most other damascus. What i do is i etch for ~20 minutes in feCl, take the blade out, scrub it down real fast with fine steel wool to remove the black oxide, then etch for another 20, then take it out and scrub it down again real fast, and repeat this untill i get the contrasting texture that I want. Usually an hour and a half or so. Cleaning off the oxide will allow the FeCl to etch faster in areas where the oxide would slow the etching down without the cleaning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsurgeson Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 John Whow! that is sick I would be more than happy with myself if I knocked that out. Awesome work mate. What do you use in your billet in term of different steels? Could you suggest what I use as contrasting steels to practice with? I would prefer not to use high quality steels as it is very expensive here in SA. And I am sure I will botch more than a few Also some links to any reading matter on patten welding like what you do would be great! Justin, thanks for that. I was only etching for a few minutes, but that was 100% strength feCL. What is your feCL / H2O ratio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 John N, I think you have the heat issue resolved!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Hey Jeff, I use old bandsaw blade (its about 6" deep x 0.060" thick) and pallet strapping (the 1 1/4 wide stuff x 1 mm thick) , proper steel is massivly expensive in the UK as your up against min order qtys from udderholm ( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsurgeson Posted April 8, 2009 Author Share Posted April 8, 2009 Hi John Thanks will give that a try, can get my hands on lots of strapping, just not as wide or as thick, but should be a good starting point. Also need to find a source of old blades. I buy my blade stock from Bohler Steel which I think is owned by Udderholm, N690 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Hi jeff, Worth checking if the pallet strap has enough carbon to start with if your using it for blades (though youll get some migration for the 'good' steel) just water quench and snap if its good stuff. Ive scrounged my pallet strap from bundles of big tubes but im nearly out now. A populatr steel mix, which I would use if I could get small qtys is udderholm 15n20 and 20c (which is basically the 15n20, without the nickle) - sticks like *errm something does to a duvet, and contrasts black and silver when etched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 I too used banding and band saw blade. This was my first knife as well as first damascus. DSCN05991 - Blacksmith Photo Gallery I found that proper heat (and good instruction) is everything!! I was very pleased with the results. I was able to get the metal for free just by doing a little dumster diving :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsurgeson Posted April 9, 2009 Author Share Posted April 9, 2009 John, I will check my local price of 15n20 out as I can get 1 meter lengths. Dodge, Thats awesome for a first knife, I certainly could not show my first knife publicly :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I was at a wedding last fall, saw the Dr that has my first knife I sold... $20... I offered to buy it back at a premium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsurgeson Posted April 9, 2009 Author Share Posted April 9, 2009 Wish I could get $20 for my first knife, mine serves as a tin opener ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.