DClaville Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Hi finally i have gotten some where on my project of building a gas forge so i will make a post and ask you lot to help me if you'd be that kind and tell me what you think and what you would add, edit, redo, remove and what you find good and bad. please hehe i will post a few pics but since there are many of them id ask you to take a look at the links to photobucket and see all the pics if you like i have tried to do it as (step by step) as possible but there might be a few big jumps in there so ask me here if there is something i shall try to explain or make some close up off links The forge The burner photo 1 seen from the side photo 2 the forge seen from one of the ends still needs to get a diamond disc and cut the fire brick in half so the door can slide to each side it is a part of and old gas bottle, the ends are 3mm steel plate the end holes are both 18cm. wide and one is 6cm. high and the other is 8cm. so that i can keep a small hole when only working with small stuff and still has a chance of working with lager stock such as axes which i plan on making. it will get 2 inches/5cm. of ceramic fiber wool and a hard brick as floor and will give it some fiber hardener and then a layer of ITC 100 on it i have welded some 12mm. Stainless steel pins in the bottom to support the floor so it wont strain the wool and break the fiber hardener and ITC 100 underneath it there is two 30x30mm square pipe with bolt to be tightened to hold a "land"/"tong rest" (not sure what it is called in English) the same "land" fits both ends and I will also make a longer one later on. The specs are outside: L. 35cm D. 29,5cm inside the chamber will be L 25cm and D. 14cm with out the ends isolation L =length D = diameter in some of the pics i have put in some normal house isolation to try out the inner fit of the floor and find the positions for the end holes/openings The burner is all made of Stainless 316 steel and some brass for the gas fittings. it is a 1 inch pipe whit a end cap tic welded in the end and air grooves are drilled and cut out and a thing SS pipe as a choke ring over the air holes. it is made after looking on John N's burner and others as well and thanks for the answers given by you John and others on the way much appreciated. i am still toying with the flame holder and has not yet made the final one, but have made 6 different prototypes and will wait to try em out in the forge when i get it done and the make the final one in SS 316 and some thick stock to take the heat. here are a pic of it, for more pics please see the links above photo3 none of it is done yet and a lot can still chance I plan on making a hand forged handle on the top so it easily can be moved around. and the legs are 3/4 inch pipe so i will make longer legs of 1inch pipe that fits over em if it needs to stand by it self i also plan on being able to take this with me to different places and forge if ill be lucky enough to make it for some hammerings and what do you think abut painting will it last? and what pain to use i am very happy with this but know that there might be some places where improvements can be made and id like this to be as good as possible thanks for looking and reading my long novel hehe and all comments good bad and advise is much appreciated and tanks in advance for the help and if you are sitting there and wanting to make your own forge feel free to ask if there is any thing you want to know how i did regards DC (i have posted the same post on British blades) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinbender Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Hi DC, Looks very good, is it OK if I swipe every good idea there? Funny that your burner looks like the twin (the better looking twin of the one I built and have no clue how the idea popped in my head. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 It's looking good DC, very good. Two suggestions off the top of my head. First don't bother with ITC-100 under the fire brick floor, use it on the furnace side of the firebrick itself. Forget a flame holder, use a 1:12 ratio tapered flare made from a disposable metal. It's unlikely you have access to something that will withstand being the burner flare. 316 SS certainly won't, it'll last longer than plain steel but not enough longer to make up for the price and time to make it compared to mild steel. I've gotten longer life from burner flares by dipping them hot into kaolin slip, it glazes the nozzle and keeps the oxy away. I can't tell from the pics how close fitting the slides and door are but if you don't leave plenty of slack the doors and tracks will warp making it hard to open and close. Leave plenty of slack and it should work well for you. Other than those three things I don't see anything I'd change were I building a pipe forge this size except perhaps to use 2 ea. 3/4" burners spaced for more even heat. Then again it's almost the very same dimensions as my old pipe forge which operates on a single 1" burner just fine. I like it, let us know if you have trouble tuning the burner. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Looks like good work, DC. I wish I had the equipment to fabricate a burner that nice! What kind of ceramic wool are you using? It's not as white as the stuff I'm used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DClaville Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 Tinbender feel free to do so Frosty I'll give every thing inside a coat of itc 100 and the wool will first get a good spray with fiber hardener. when i say flame holder i might mean the same thing as a flare as you speak of that is tapper inside to shape the flame, and i will have the end of it 10-15mm. inside the hole for it the the isolation will hold the actual flame. when you say kaolin slip what is that and do you have a link for some of it and its normal use ? yeah i have also been thinking the same thing with the doors and i hope the slack i have made is enough i used a 1,5mm spacer when welding. Matt yeah it sure is nice to have a lath the wool you see in the pics are not the high temp ceramic wool but some "normal" (rockwool) used for isolating houses and such i have just used some of it to try out how the inner size of the chamber would end up like. and thanks all for the nice words and time used to answer DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian D Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Very, Very nice DC. I really like the looks of the turned burner and choke assembly. Makes for a really clean and nice looking burner. Good job! I wish I had a lathe at home, and a mill for that matter. How did you fab your gas nozzle and tube in the middle of the burner? Looks like it will be a nice burner to tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DClaville Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 Brian what i did was just to took a round bar of brass and turn a longer part of it thinner and then drill a hole in it. or wait drill the hole before you turn it so it will keep some strength in the end i drilled a little bigger hole to cut to fit a screw on MAG/MIG welding tip i used 0,6mm (that gives a hole of 0,7mm) and in the closed end of the burner i drilled a hole fitting the smaller part of the gas injector and then drilled a hole sideways in it and cut for a screw to hold the injector in place. in the larger end i drilled and cut for screwing in some of the smallest "standard" fittings used for gas hope this helps a bit i am haveing some problems with this card reader thingy on this PC so might have to wait for tomorrow and then ill post some pics of the burner parts in close view DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 By flare I am referring to a piece of pipe that tapers internally larger at a ratio of 1:12 or about 12 degrees. Kaolin clay is what porcelain pottery is made from. You should be able to find it at any ceramics or pottery shop. 50-100ml would last you years, they may just give you a small bit for asking. Once you tell them what you want to do with it. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blafen Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 If you have clay throw some bits into a bucket and when it gets nice and runny its called slip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DClaville Posted March 21, 2009 Author Share Posted March 21, 2009 Thanks Frosty and Blafen will try to get some then before i get it started up for real. DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 It isn't a necessary thing DC, just something that will help the burner flares last longer. They'll still burn up, just not as soon. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock-n-time Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Frosty I get the flare part. on blueprint agent was necking a 3/4 pipe just after the fitting. leaving some thing like ><.just concaved where do i put jet. or how far down the pipe can one go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I'm not sure what you're referring to as a flare. Is it the one at the forge end of the burner tube? Somewhere else? Is "blue print agent" a server, I googled it and got all kinds of non useful (for me) stuff. have a link so I can see what you're talking about? Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock-n-time Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Naw Frosty I'm sorry i will have to get the term's better. it is bpo192 gas forge, The blue print page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DClaville Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 sorry for the wait but here are some detail pics of the burner parts and gas injector more in next post. DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DClaville Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 the rest of the pics and a extra gas valv ill put in just before between the burner and hose and a pic of it burning at 0,8 bar. DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 DC: I checked the BP and see what you're talking about, he actually put a venturi in a burner. Astounding! I've never seen anyone else do so and they generally work pretty well. FYI only a few commercially made burners actually use a venturi, this is the first home built one I've ever seen with one. For the most part it's a misnomer to call these "venturi" burners. They're properly called Induction devices or inducers. It's no biggy, I don't quibble with terminology unless it's important. Where is your jet in relation to the throat (venturi)? Typically I refer to the throat as the narrowest part of the burner tube. From what I can see it looks like you have it half way down the tube, nowhere close to the throat. Another difference is you've built an ejector type burner and the BP is a linear type burner. An ejector is inherently more efficient. Outside of some possible details I don't see anything wrong with your set up but it's hard to tell from pictures. Can you make a simple sketch showing where everything is? Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DClaville Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Frosty: When you say BP ? hehe okay i didn't know that, i build it after John N's design shown over on BB. i took this design since it looked "to me" easy to make and it looked highly effective. the jet is around 1/3 in from the end and the burner is the same DIA inside all length. ill try to make a sketch today. DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) Blue print, the one in the #192 forge burner blue print. 1/3 in from the end. I assume that is the input end, not the end in the forge. Yes? The critical distance depending on type and construction is measured from the throat. I used to give out a ratio but have seen so many burners that work well with jets placed way off from that ratio. Mike Porter puts the jet in his type 5 nearly at the back of his air intake slots. Others have them entirely inside the throat. The 3/4" "T" burners I make need the jets about an inch updraft from the throat and they're pretty finicky about it. I attached a concept drawing of the "T" burner and in the drawing the jet is too deep in the throat. A similar sketch will let us discuss your burner and be able to keep track of what's what. Frosty Frosty Edited March 25, 2009 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DClaville Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 okay i am yet novice at this forum will have a look at that. here is a sketch 5 mins in paint. hehe the jet can be moved in and out to a max of the 1/3 in from the input end cant see much deffrence in the flame when i move it in and out but will tune it to find the best setting when the forge is ready the total length is 35cm. DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 That looks like your basic ejector type burner alright. How many air intake slots? The total area of the air intake openings should be at least 2x the area of the burner tube. Mike Porter likes an odd number of air intakes so the incoming air streams don't collide and cause turbulence. Looks good though. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DClaville Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 It has 3 air intake slots. I have just made them so big that it is possible to blow out the flame no matter what gas pressure and then i have full control of it with the choke ring that slides over it to ajust the air intake. thanks DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Ayup, you can always choke the intake if there's too much but it's really hard to get it to draw more than it can if it's too rich. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DClaville Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 well i finnaly got it done it has been drying the past week two layers of 1 inch 1400 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Looks like you have a good hot forge going for you now. Congratulations, let the beating begin! Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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