dennis_hl Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 I came across a few drawings online of an 8th century Germanic Seax, which I based this blade on. This blade's cutting edge is 8.5 inches. I welded up a simple twisted bar of 5160 and mild steel, drew it out and then welded on another length of 5160 for the edge. I forged the blade to shape and cleaned it up with a file. One thing that I noticed when hardening the blade was that I had to quench it in cool oil to make it hard enough to take an edge. Plain 5160 I found, needs warm oil (cool oil seems to make the steel brittle--my shop's working temp during the winter is often in the teens F, it's not heated and is largely open to the elements, I frequently have to brush snow off of the anvil, so cool oil is not solid oil if you know what I mean). This took cool oil, I suspect it was the mild steel and carbon migration. For my next blade, an Anglo-Saxon seax, I'd like to use some wrought Iron that I have and 5160 for the edge. Will carbon migration be so much of a problem as to not allow the steel edge to harden enough to take and hold an edge? If so, what are some of my options? Cold oil? Ohh, almost forgot, here's the pic of the latest blade: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 I make smaller blades and for them I believe in more carbon...if you layered with 50% mild and 50% 5160 you have cut the carbon content in half. For larger blades such as yours that may work and it seems you have worked around the hardening problem...My choice would be to start out with more carbon content but that is just me. If you want more contrast when you etch you may want to consider L-6 for a mate to your 5160, it is a fine blade steel on its own and would likely raise the overall carbon content of your billet. It has nickel in it and will contrast nicely I bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Stegmeier Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Pretty nice subtle pattern in the germanic seax, but it doesn't look like a twist pattern in the photo??? From the photo it looks kinda woody, like a fairly regular flat lamination with a hard grind on it??? As for carbon migration, YEP, that is a big old problem! At welding temps the carbon will move into the voids in the lower carbon iron/steel... If you start with a very high carbon steel you can still get a period level of carbon in it, 50 or 60 pts of carbon. If you want to use wrought iron, you are better off "blistering" it then you can add some modern steel to it to get a better pattern and more contrast. Blister steel is a period practice of case hardening wrought iron to produce a very heterogenious steel. When you forge weld the blister steel together it becomes shear steel, you can blister and reweld, producing double shear steel, and triple shear steel. If you work quicky and at the lowest welding temp you can, you can get some decent pattern out of shear steel, but the longer you work it, and the high the temp you work at the more likely you are to not be able to see any pattern Without introducing nickol or chrome into the mix, a little L6 will jump the pattern out. The other option is to use phosphorus to embrittle part of your blistered wrought steel, it will make the steel harder to work, being cold short. The earliest patternwelded blades seem to have intentional phosphorus embrittlement, not just the traces from the local ore, as part of the 'hardening' alloy, the pattern welding with a plain carbon wrought steel was to overcome the natural failings of using embrittled steel. Check out the information in "The Celtic Sword" If you want to do period work that is the way to go (along with a charcoal fire and a little tiny stump anvil:-) If you want pretty steel and really good edge holding go for high carbon alloys with good contrast. O1/L6, 1095/L6 The higher carbon steels often weld at a lower temp too, although they can be hot short (it is easy to burn 1095 and waste it, so be careful.:-) Most of the really nice knife steels if you accidently burn them in the fire (white hot sparks flying...) you should just throw them away, wrought iron and mild steel you can burn and not hurt much, but good steel needs more care. Good luck (ie may God smile on you, and your work:-) When you going to try some composite patterns? :-) (ps in the SCA I am Master Sir Fionnbharr Mac Shane:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_hl Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 Pretty nice subtle pattern in the germanic seax, but it doesn't look like a twist pattern in the photo??? From the photo it looks kinda woody, like a fairly regular flat lamination with a hard grind on it??? Thanks for the info in your post above. As to the pattern in the photo, I was dealing with the sun and reflection and I think you are seeing some of the deeper sanding marks. The blade is still a work in progress. The bar was a lam. of ss ms ss ms, doubled, I squared the billet and twisted it. The pattern flattened a bit while working it into shape, but there is a twist visable when you're not fighting a reflection. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_hl Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 BTW: I found some L6, a friend has a length of bandsaw blade from a saw mill. It's not much, only a 12" section. I'll be giving it a try as soon as I have it. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 How about L6 and WI for the twist section and then a file for the edge? Should get a very visible pattern and still a High C edge. Fionnbharr; It looks like a twist that had been hammered out flat rather than ground down to see the "stars". Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_hl Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 How about L6 and WI for the twist section and then a file for the edge? Should get a very visible pattern and still a High C edge. Thomas Are the smaller band saw blades also L6, I may have access to several yards of it from my dad. I think it came from a portable saw mill, the blades are about 1" + wide. Never mind, I read the post on bandsaw blades. D'oh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Stegmeier Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Thomas: I can tell a simple maiden hair pattern;-), its just I can't see any pattern at all distinctly. Dennis: Did you hand rub the finish, or drawfile it? That might be what I am seeing instead of the pattern. The scratchs go along the length of the blade, did you drag it over the contact wheel to get rid of the regular grind lines? I see a faint wave in the picture but if it is a maiden hair pattern, her hair isn't twisted into a pony tail, it seems to be brushed out and laying over some slats, producing a rather becoming wave ;-) I can only see, what I see, and if I can't see the forrest for the trees, my bad I suppose;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_hl Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 This may be a better view. I think I can see this as wood grain. I draw filed, then hand sanded it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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