Mick

See, the problem with posting such large picture files is that we can see your work in fine detail. Close scrutiny shows up a major design flaw with this project. It just wont work unless you get a wick for your candle.
We await pics of candle holder Mk2. Well done DM. :D

An interesting thread this, think I'l file it for future reference. (Insert long groan here)

I can see one major flaw with this design for a smithy. MAN YOU HAVEN'T GOT A CORNER bury your unfinished / failed projects in and you can no longer tell people you'll start a job when you get a round to it, you've already got one. Oh and Glenn would be so pleased that you thought outside the square.

What I like about you Grant is you have such an eloquent turn of phrase.

I guess the frog wasn't doing a happy dance around the forge that day Richard, and I reckon there were a few words and phrases that couldn't be used in this family friendly forum either said or thought at the moment of discovery. If that crack was any bigger you could just about run mule tours up and down the canyons.

I feel for you bloke.

Looks like you need to take a trip to your nearest second hand shop Rob.

Oh, ROFLMA, ha ha he he, giggle, guffaw. Some days I am just sooooo funny.

Glad to see you spared no expense on the set dressing for the photo shoot Dale. Well done bloke.

As for the 2.2 length, it was only short on one end wasn't it?

Richard love the color, can you get it in Purple?
I would really like you to post your results from using the press. I have trouble with the concept of the work piece rising with bottom die during the pressing phase, or am I just seeing monsters in the closet?

Long and extended groan.

"Til shade is gone, til (sic) water is gone, into the
Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with
the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder's eye on the Last Day."

It is generally considered good manners to credit an author when quoting his work, however Robert Jordan (James Oliver Rigney, Jnr.) died in September 2008 so I guess he is past being miffed at this oversight on your part.

The guys who have generoulsy given of their time and knowledge responding to this thread are very much alive and could very likely take exception to your seemingly ungracious and beligerent comments.

By your own statement you are claiming a unique gas forge design, with the only similarity between it and existing, proven gassers is that they occupy a similar space, yet you seem to be demanding that someone applauds your efforts, pats you on the back, oh, and by the way tell you exactly where and how to place your handy man propane torch to make it all work efficiently.

I stand by my opinion that having regard to your comments you appear to have no grasp of the basic principles of a gas fired forge, but you are persisting in rejecting replies that don't suit your argument in a fairly unpleasant manner.

BTW the stated volume of your forge including 'refractory that is never needed' is about 54 cubic inches. Peacock told you the capacity of your burner is about 12 cubic inches. Did you expect him to tell you that it it would be insufficient so that you could deem his response to be unpleasant?

Young man I suggest you step back, take a few deep breaths then return with a more moderate attitude and a willingness to to accept advise from those with a greater knowledge, and a reluctance to argue from a stance of ignorance.

The door is 1/4" thick steel, as is the rest. Refractory is never required, it just makes heat loss less and makes it more efficient. I may indeed line it, but I cannot until I decide where to best place the hole. I could put it in the bottom (the shiny side) in the center and have the torch direct straight at the metal placed in there, with the forge lain handle up, or I can drill a hole in the side and have the heat spiral upward as it escapes. Which of course would mean I would have it sit shiny side down.

I have yet to see a design like mine, google has nothing for me I have not read time and time again over the span of 4 years since I first took interest. I just came here to look for input from someone I hoped had more experience with gas than I.

Dothacker, your propane torch would not 'work' as a forge burner for the same reason that your brushcutter engine would not work as the motor in your pickup truck.

Dothacker, you said you have been researching gas forges for FOUR years, in that time did you ever find a gas forge design that did NOT use REFRACTORY material?

Do yourself a favor, stop obsessing about the most efficient location for the burner hole and have a good think about the forge itself, because you have missed the concept entirely!!!!!!!
This type of forge is all about the REFRACTORY, the outer shell is only there to provide a platform for the REFRACTORY. This is why you see so many different casing materials and designs. The forge could be constructed without any form of casing if you used a REFRACTORY material capable of supporting itself during use.

Steel, no matter how thick is not considered to be a REFRACTORY material.

To be forged, steel needs to be heated to temperatures of around 2,000+ deg F. Without the use of a REFRACTORY material your steel box would also be heated to the same temperature in the process. This would create certain practical and safety issues, not least of which would be the proximity of your propane torch to a steel box producing that kind of radiant heat!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you want to persist with your design without the inclusion of a REFRACTORY material inside the box I would suggest the most efficient placement of the hole for your propane torch would be where it allows you to place the torch inside the box with the burner facing outward. That would allow you to slowly roast your piece of steel in the torch flame without having to hold the torch in one hand.

Grant the patience you have displayed is almost at sainthood level.

clicking on thumbs in this thread will open windows outside of ifi.
i don't know if it is malicious or not but beware.

Ta Ian great photos.

Cheers
Phil
(what did I drink that night?)

Well that's it. No more sleeps. By days end Jocko, Jocko Jnr, Dale and I will be officially getting hammered at Moony's.

It's simple really, all meteorologists are pathological liars. All weather forecasts are a lie, even when the weather happens to coincide with the forecast. They still lied, but they just got it wrong.

OI..... who said I was cynical?

1


Got a sneek peek at Dale's check list last night.

"Beer, esky, beer, smithing stuff, beer, steel, beer, tent, beer, sleeping bag, beer, food"..... and so goes the list.

I think Jocko, Jocko Jnr and I are in for a rough road trip.

Peter without going into a full engineers dissertation on the design of a reinforced concrete slab your first concern should be the nature of the ground you are placing it on. A slab designed for non reactive stable sandy soil is going to be much lighter design than one for the other end of the scale, highly reactive clay soils. Forget about swampy country, that's a whole other issue. As soil test will indicate the bearing capacity of the ground and is generally a major consideration in the slab design along with the size and types of loads to be applied to it.
Your next concern is proper preparation of the site, making sure of levels and that you are in clean undisturbed soil free from vegetable matter, (think major tree roots and the like.)
Next make sure the reo is placed accurately, and that the concrete they deliver is at the correct water content, and when poured it is vibrated correctly to remove all voids.
Make sure all the correct protocols are followed for curing the concrete and 28 days later your slab should be at full design strength.
Having said that a 6 inch slab is rule of thumb standard for light industrial use over here and there is more slab failure from bad site prep and soil movement and badly poured and cured concrete than there is from excessive loads.
But most important make sure you give yourself a nice low gradient transition ramp between the two floor levels that 8 inch step would be a killer.

2
Dale don't forget to pack the beer!

3

No humor today, just a deep sadness at the passing of Mike Ameling.

4


You only need one hand to count now Dale........you can rest up the crook shoulder for the next few days.

5

Oh how the days just drag.:(

6


Just think Dale, tomorrow you can put one glove back on.

Top of the morning to you Michael,
oh boy oh boy oh boy, where to start. First I would suggest you take off the rose coloured glasses where blacksmithing is concerned. Simply having a passionate desire to promote blacksmithing is never going to be enough to get this off the ground, and your passion is not going to be widely shared.

Analyse what you are trying to sell from the viewpoint of a sceptic, non believing, long pocketed financier. When you have done that you should be able to identify the weaknesses in your proposal and take steps to negate them.

I don't know what government funding in Ireland is like but I suspect its much the same as near everywhere else in the world, hard to come by and even harder to keep. Politicians will only give support to causes that are politically attractive, and that they believe will benefit them politically. Good luck trying to convince a Poli that blacksmith training has any political merit.

If I were in your shoes I would target the commercial blacksmithing community with a package designed to attract their interest, keeping in mind for almost any business to offer sponsorship they expect a benefit to their business in return.

Mate if there is any infrastructure of the old school remaining I suggest you convince as many smiths as you can find to form an association and get the thing up and running as an operating, self funded smithy, no matter how small. It is always easier to gain support for a struggling reality than an ethereal concept.

To my way of thinking if you can't garner support for you project from within the smithing community you have got no chance with those outside of it.

All I can offer you is my complete moral support, I would love to hear in 6 months that you have been successful.

Best of luck
Mick