gote

I recently bent (and slightly upset in the bend) a hundred or so 10x10mm mild steel bars in my machinist's vise. It did no harm whatsoever but this anonymous Swedish vise weighs well over 25 kgs and is made in cast steel. The post wise held a tool that was needed in the process so I could not use that.

I think that the moral is: Get yourself a machinist's vise (also) but make sure it is not cast iron if you are going to hammer on it. In this part of the world there are five anvils to every post vice on the market.

My holes go clear of the feet exactly. Fortunately I have nevver been forced to turn the anvil on tits side to be able to get something out of the hole. (110 kg)

I agree nearly 100% with Matei. The difference is that I prefer is the Swedish position of the square hole. It is on the side of the square horn. What I percieve as weaknesses of the Lodon pattern are that the hardy hole sits far away from the bulk of the anvil and that the geometrical shape makes it noisy. The noisness may be less pronounced if the anvil is made with a joint between two materials but an all steel cast anvil will have next to no internal damping.

Frankola, Take a look at the thread 'Flashing around the chimney'  At the end you will find my setup. It works very well with a horizontal "Chimney"

On 2016-04-04 at 9:24 AM, Frosty said:

 It's more a Zen like way of learning to let stress go than it is relieving stress and frustrations by bashing the crap out of something.

Which was/is your martial art Frosty? It took me a lot of time in the dojo to learn that this is how it works

Your anvil height would kill my back. Read the thread about anvil height in the anvil section.

If you use longish stock you do not need tongs.

For a beginner it is better to use mild steel bar from a shop than to use scrap or rebar that in the US seems to be glorified scrap. Then you do not need to blame yourself for problems caused by difficult/varying material.  Oops Frosty already said that

I make two tools that are next to impossible to buy here. Unfortunately I have no pics today.

One is a weed tool. I start from 10mm round and point one end. This end is then made into a 50 mm long leaf shaped scraper. One side straight and sharp the other rounded both ways. The "stem" is then bent 45 degrees in the direction of the end 20mm from the "leaf". Then it is bent close to the leaf 90 degrees to the left (for a right handed person). The stem is then drawn out so a handle can be fitted. The whole contraption is 40-50 cm long. It is very good for weeding. The blade is used for poking up plants and for cutting weeds below the surface. The double bend makes it easy to move the blade as a scyte below soil surface.

The other thing is just a garden throwel. You can buy any number of these but they are too flat and small. This means that if you dig something out with them you get your knuckles down into the dirt or stone as the case may be.  I make them with a 90 degree bend up from the base of the tines and 6 cm up I bend the shaft back 60-80 degrees. They are about 25cm from the base of the tines to the end of the handle. They can be made either by forge weLding three 8x8 square pieces or by cutting a 8x25mm flat into three tines.

Mild steel is OK for both.

No you do not NEED quite a few different sets. It depends upon what you do. For some stuff you need them. However, there is also the Japanese way. I just want to point out that a great set of tongs are not always necessary. Yes; to make tongs is a good excercise. However, I prefer to make things I need - that is excercise enough for me. I think that it is a mistake to start making tongs as beginner's project because someone said that you must. 

I hardly ever use tongs. I keep my stock long. Early I bought three "wall ornaments" at a "medieval fair" and made them work. Later I bought a wolf jaw. I only use two of the four. Japanese sword smiths weld a handle to their billet rater than use tongs and I think that is a good idea.

I have my work bench adjacent to my squarish forge and this allows me to prop up the "handle end" of the stock anyway I need, while it is in the fire. By the way, I also use an adjustable stand intended to help in wood working. That allows me to lay the piece stable on the anvil when chiseling.    

20 hours ago, notownkid said:

SHEEP or GOATS,    mows, trims and fertilizes

Yup. They are also good for removing any (un-?)wanted flowers or shrubs.

The fleur de lys always has a collar so I would make one this way - not by cutting. It is so much easier to do one in three pieces tackweld them together and put on the collar.

Google fleur de lys and look at the pictures there is any number of variants to be inspired of.

My preference is definitely to have the tool sitting on the anvil face. I feel that this is the best way to transmit the force of the blow to the anvil. It also defines the position of the tool. A tool that is wedged has no well defined position. The shank will prevent any lateral movement. If it is made as a tube forced into the hole it will also prevent any rocking movement. As I wrote, the edge of my hotcut will not move more than a small fraction of a mm and it has a rock bottom connection with the anvil but I can lift it out using thumb amd fore finger. I want to have the tightest possible fit that does not jam and the tube method gives me that.

I have seen video clips where the hardy tool is made from a conical piece that is forced into a hole. Obviously I have not tested the result but I can imagine that the shank has only rim contact with the hardy hole and that there is nothing to prevent the tool from rocking. Some of the tools were not made on the hole where they were intended to be used so the fit is unlikely to be what I want in a hardy tool.

I have never tried to make a solid shank since the tube is so much easier to get into the right shape. However I do NOT get it sloppy. The fit is such that I can only put it down one way. I have no measuring tool that can measure the play but my feeling is that I have maximum 0.1mm play at the edge of the hot cut.

My hole is tapering very slightly so it is wider at the top. A lot of the hardy tools I see in pictures have shanks that taper very much. I assume they could be called sloppy

If we assume that the shank is worked down to red =750°C it will shrink 7/1000 when cooling down. If the shank is 1"=25mm the resulting play will be 0.17mm. Is that sloppy/loose or is there something else at work?

I forgot- My anvil is north Swedish meaning that the hardy hole is 4" deep

I am lucky enough to have a hardy  hole that is a vee bit smaller than 30mm so I heat a piece of 300 square pipe and beat it into the hole. When it cools down it is a perfect thight fit in the hole. I then fit the tool into the pipe or weld it on.

I want everythimg to be a tight fit with zero wobble. Especially important to a hot cut.

As far as I can hear/see there is nothing to mistranslate. The text is 100% Mr Atwell's attempt to explain something he does not understand. Torbjörn is not to blame he has made a nice video of how he makes a flatter.

If it works it is correct (And I think that it is a good idea)

19 hours ago, Frosty said:

Welded ranch panel fencing makes nice tool rack material, you can find different spacing and it comes in 16' lengths so a couple should do for a couple years.

I organize my stake and bottom tools by the available flat surface method. Its a time honored traditional technique that's been around since humans started keeping sharp sticks and throwing stones.

Frosty The Lucky.

Available flat surface method. That is a really nice way to put it. I am afraid my wife would use another way of describing it.

Start with the rake. You need one and you cannot get it wrong. It is nice to have the first thing you make a functional tool. Flatten one end of a round bar. Bend it 90degrees and shape the other end as a kind of hook/handle.

You are most welcome. It would be for me too. I was surprised at the price. I now have to try to get prices on all my oldest books.

The pic is from an antiquarian bookseller who has it for sale. 600 Euro.

http://www.hagelstam-antikvariaatti.fi/se/shop/details/code/106272

Since there is no food for fungi and soil microbes in charcoal the charring may slow down rotting a litle bit. Old wooden fences used to be charred here too and they can become surprisingly old but the use of slow growing resin rich wood was probably the main factor.

Frosty, You would not like the taste of the next wonder quench that turns iron into steel. - Pee but must be male!.  (No, not nitriding, just quenching)

I have a book from 1753 that contains recipies on how to do things. It is amazing what people did believe. Just one little piece of info:

"If someone has put a pox on your gun. Put some moss from a skull between the gunpowder and the bullet. Then no pox works. Of course all smiths know that if you quench iron in garlic juice it turns to steel.

We do not have much muscle in the hands. The grip comes from muscles in the arm that pull tendons. I would suggest that you have someone look at this.

When skinny people see to have a lo of strength it is partly because they have very good technique.

Sometimes a threaded bolt with a nut on the backside is a good fastener. In that case I heat the bolt and give the head a couple of bangs as if it were a nail head.