Avadon

I've got friends in evil places ;)

13% Woah.. how does that work? I've never heard of anything so high.

Okay Thanks All. You might be right about only doubling up the side that faces the neighbor, as the other sides are further from neighbors and I could just use standard insulation process.

Do you have to fire those studs into the concrete with that concrete gun thing? And ontop I imagine you use long screws or lag bolts to hold that beam in parallel?

Yah I googled some diagrams It's kind of like that. I don't know if I feel comfortable adding all that framing. I think I'll be more comfortable when I get in there and check it out. My link Thank you Rob for the help. I'm sure i'll probably have anther question or two in the weeks to come. :D

Oh is this the ridge vent you were talking about? I'll look.. but I kinda doubt it has this. What does this do? Allow hot air to come out? Does it let your heat out in the winter? Also I presume I need to insulate the cieling rafters right? Because otherwise all my heat in the winter will be lost into the rafters and all my cooling in the summer will be thwarted by a hot roof.

Excellent.. thanks for this information. I've copied this paragraph to my building notes. What exactly is a ridge vent? The garage/shop does hvae little 2" holes around the cieling level. I guess i'll be plugging these? or building a way to open and close them? I'm not exatly sure about how I do the double studs and weave the insulation through. Is there a picture of that or a more obvious way to describe it. Does this mean the other set of studs stick out forward from the original studs?

I think your right about the drywall after thinking about it. It would work, but over time it would get a lot of dents and dings and the spark spray tends to singe it. I do a lot of cutting of stock with the angle grinder. Some day i'll get my 500$ metal cutting chop saw I saw. Until then I am master of the angle grinder. I've even used up de-walt angle grinders.. if that gives you any idea about how much I use my grinder. It's a tool I use at least once nearly every hour in the shop. Those grinder sounds are what I don't want my neighbors to hear much of. If they do hear something it will be during the day and muted. Can you show me what the cleats look like for hanging toolboards. I am not familiar with that product. I've got almost all my heavy equipment on wheels. Sanders, Anvils, forges, etc. Your right that wheels make a world of difference. Having things in a permanent spot can be really restrictive as jobs change all the time. Unfortunately the threshold of my garage terminates to gravel. At some point i'd like to pour a large concrete pad so I can wheel the anvil and forge out for "those beautiful days." I do want to be able to hang my chain hoist in the middle of the shop so I can pick up anvils and heavy stuff. I don't really know how I would hook up a gantry system or something where that chain host would be able to go from front to back or even better from side to side. I want to take out that middle partition. But i'm not sure if it's load bearing. It certainly takes up a huge amount of space. Worst case scenario I have to put a pole in the middle. But i'd like the space to be totally open. I don't deal with a lot of heavy things but occasionally I do need to lift up to 1000lbs to set it on something. Usually something mobile. You might be right about the firebreak/insurance issue. I don't know what a firebreak is though. Does that mean some special insulation? As you can see in the 33.jpg (last picture) that is a picture looking from the kitchen down into the garage. So there is a mud room in between and laundry room. Thanks for the help.. If you think of anything that will help, keep them ideas coming. :)

Yes, heat (220V Heater from Northern Tool) to keep the garage/shop reasonable temp during the winter. The attached house has an electric forced air furnace, propane fireplace and another small pellet stove in the kitchen. During the summer though I t can get nuclear hot out in the desert (high 80's and 90's) and I want to have a in-window-unit Air conditioner. Does that pull a lot of electricity/amperage? Is that something to worry about? OOooo This sounds like were going places now. So I would first line the walls with that black paper/plastic barrier stuff right.. then run good insulation (what thickness? RJ?) then put in my sound proofing (is this board or foam?) and then do the heavy drywall and then in some areas of heavy spark-spray put up the thin metal. Sounds like a fair bit of work, but it sounds really worth it. My neighbors aren't close. I'm on about an acre. But I never want them to think they are living next to a blacksmith. Never want to give them a reason to complain so insulation is definitely on my list. Thanks Rob.

I never realized this. I always thought those twin breakers were just to save space. I'll try to keep this in mind. One idea for one of those dual 20amp breakers was to put half outlets on 1 20 amp side, and another half outlets on the other 20 amp breaker. Now that might be overkill.. but if I had like tv, some lights, and some tools running on one side and I started doing something on the other side (or a friend did) it wouldn't trip a 20amp. Maybe that is overkill. I don't know. I know it's rather hard to trip a 20amp breaker with common shop tools. What do you think? overkill? or smart planning?

Sorry to harass... but I have one more question.. the shop is not insulated.. do I need to insulate+drywall the walls before I start doing the electrical? Or can I just run down the walls and make my outlets? I do want to insulate and sound proof at some point and i'm hoping I can just put that behind the electrical? I am on the fence about whether I want to dry wall or not. Is this reccomended? Do I have a fire hazard not covering the insulation? I like the open studs simply because it's easy to see them, bolt to them, hang something off them, drive a nail, etc. Ideas here would be great.. Thanks in advance for all the help.

Excellent. Thanks for the help. I just got a call from a local electrician too and he confirmed what you said. Good to hear two electricians saying the same consistant thing. I think I'll be fine on the 125amp. Doubt I could ever trip that main even if I turned everything on at once and ran it at full capacity. This local electrician said you'd probably never even come close to capacity. Thanks for the tip on the wire running. I used to do systems engineering and have run a ton of cat 5, so that's probably where the comm/power running concern got wrapped up in my mind. I like the idea of the electrical chase. That will provide a good protected place for them to lay in. Thanks all for the help. Excellent responses. Not having to change that panel will save me a huge amount of time. Faster I get up and running the faster I can start making money to pay the mortgage.

Yah between what you and Rob are saying I'll probably never trip that breaker. For the most part it would be lights, compressor, and welder running at the same time, along with a 220v heater in winter/ air conditioner in summer. I guess if I did start tripping that I would just put in a higher guage wire and breaker and upgrade that sub panel. In Illinois I did have a 30amp breaker in the garage (it was way old electrical) and it would trip all the time. Had to be vary careful about how many lights and tools I ran. I guess I can always just try and if need be upgrade the sub panel. Doesn't sound like i'd have to re-run all the outlets/lights if I did change it. Because that would be a lot of work. Where do you get CO detecters? I have a fire detector that is batter operated that detects carbon monoxide, fire/smoke. One time I cracked the acetylene tank and it wasn't very much but it did set off the smoke alarm. Good to know that thing was working. What detectors do you use for safety?

Cool. Thank you, I appreciate reporting back whatever you find.

Yah I was quite surprised to see the sub panel. Mostly because the main panel is literally 8-10 feet from the sub panel. In this house there is a main panel in the mud room and then the sub panel is in the garage, next room over. So they probably just fished a wire over the ceiling of the mud room/laundry room and to the garage. Probably wasn't more than 10' of wire. If for some reason I do trip the main on that 125amp panel. Is it unreasonable to think that I could fairly inexpensively re-run a heavier guage conduit and make that sub panel a 150, 175 or 200amp service?

Oh yah and I should have no problem running single phase 220V 30amp lines off of this (like before) right? I could probably get more pics of the inside of this sub panel down the road.

PS.. no idea what all those breakers are for. I think they just put them in with the idea that there was going to be more electrical because all there is in the garage is the automatic garage door on one door, maybe 6 outlets, and one or two flourescent lights. Almost nothing. I'll probably put in 12-15 outlets, 6-8 eight foot flourescent light fixtures, 3-4 220V 30 amp plugs. As I'm just one person I wouldn't think I'd ever use more than 100amp by myself. But i'm just not sure what I could have in there in the future. Just out of curiousity can you have a 200 amp sub panel from a 200amp breaker. Basically just a sub-station?

So I'm looking at this house and I believed it to just have a 200 amp service. I thought I'd just have to run my electricity to the shop from the 200 amp service and just share the house with the 200amp. I did this in massachusetts. Never had a problem, never dimmed lights or anything like that. 200amps is heck of a lot of power. I could run the dryer, washer, 30amp industrial compressor, and 30 amp welder all while having tv+lights, etc running and never had even the slightest issue. I think the range/oven was probably even running during one of those times. They probably never draw their full amount except for start up. So I might not have been anywhere near capacity. Anyway this house has a 200 amp service AND a 125amp sub panel in the garage. Is this a better setup than running off the 200amp service? I am just wondering if 125amp will be enough. I have a 30 amp compressor, 30amp tig welder, misc power tools, shop lights. I'm guessing I'll be okay? Does anyone here have a 125 service in their shop and can testify to them? When they ran some of the outlets and lights they just laid the wire ontop of the rafters. This isn't to code is it? I've always run down boards or even put boards in to secure the conduit. I mean it looks like garbage to boot and it kills your ability to throw light storage up there without interfering with electrical. What is the best way to shore those up. Something like a 1" x 5" board screwed to the rafters to act as a highway to neatly secure those lines to. Is there any problem running electrical 15/20amp lines a few inches apart for a long parallel run?

Very cool!! That must have been some good work. Now go sell it to a college for $2,500 and buy yourself a new jet-ski/plasma cutter/bandsaw/toy That's how I grew my business. :)

After spending some time thinking about this I realized I was kind of going about this the hard way. Simple carport designs and rv carport designs work quite well and getting a kit might actually be a lot cheaper than having to rebuild a lean to out of wood years later and also won't be an eyesore or kill resale. This carport attached has a main area and side protection. One could always sheet that left side you are enclosed on the roof and on one side. Also allows smoke to vent between the two roofs. Neat idea. Little utility sheds like this area probably extremely cheap in this economy and most probably can be assembled without hiring a contractor. Some i've seen are as cheap as a $500 and even if that seems high they do offer good design suggestions for a DIY project. Thomas' idea is also really good. Tommorow I make a bid after 4, YES FOUR MONTHS!!, of house hunting. I'm pretty sure I'll get this place. I've had my heart broken numerous times over the last few months but I think this place is going to be the one. I'll show pics. But it's a manufactured house, 3br 2 ba backs to BLM, in a desirable location on 1.25 acres and best of all it's very well within my means and I got a 3% loan. Maybe some day we can have a hammer in at my place! :D

That's right. I used to live on cape cod. Very famaliar with the cape, sandwich, mashpee, hyannis, plymouth, wareham, etc. It was definitely an experience. My gladiator was shipped all the way out there than came back with me to oregon. Doubt many gladiators get to travel that far unless they are going to europe. New England winters are very harsh. Nothing in the west compares. The guy who came out to do my car windshield replacement in 20dg weather can tell you. It was so cold I couldn't even stand out there and watch him. I just offered him tea and hot choclate but he refused. New England winters are an inside forging experience. Even the blacksmith near me I hardly ever saw outside and definitely never in the winter.

These are all good ideas. Do you have any links or can you upload pictures of this stuff? Seeing makes it so much easier to visualize. Yah I don't think i'd spend the time to do roll up doors. This is just more of a place to work outside with a seperate set of tools where i'd do more coal forging which i'd rather not bring inside.

This is very cool. I like the idea of attaching to the side of the existing building. Gives you a good back wall. Then all you need is sides and a roof. Then you have one open face or open door. How well does the brick flooring work? Seems like it would go off level pretty quick. I'd love to make a cool foundation that would avoid having to hire a company to come in and pour a concrete slab, but maybe in the long run that is the cheaper option. Is it difficult or expensive to concrete/mortar bricks in? I'm quite handy, and can build pretty much anything.

The lease purchase is actually the best for me right now. Can't get the loan right now. Need another 2 years or more to get the best loan I can. Meanwhile my rent and deposit is holding the place and pulling down the price of the property which is agreed upon in the lease. Lease purchase is actually a win win for the buyer provided you negotiate a good purchase price. It gives you the ability to walk with little risk if for some unseen reason things go wrong. If the economy goes up you still only pay what you agreed upon. If the economy goes way down you can cut your losses losing only your small few thousand dollar deposit. The buyer at least gets immediate payments through rent and the deposit they can place towards principle or towards inurance/taxes. So it's not terrible for the buyer either. Certainly much better than letting the property sit for the winter.

If I get this place it has a large porch. But I don't want to be forging on that decking or around it. Too much chance of fire or just messing up the wood.