Mark Aspery

A friend of mine does one very similar to this and then he drill small holes along the parameter and laces the whole leaf with very fine copper wire.

I think this style of leaf is very worthy of exploring. I will be interested to see where you go with it.

Here is a link to the YouTube site for a clip of the video.

YouTube - Promotional video of a section of Darryl Nelsons new DVD 'The Lynx'

I forget if you mentioned it with Darryl's other video's or not, does he either step you through creating the chisels and punches or at least show each one for each step of the process?

Thanks for posting this Mark!

Darryl shows you the tool, he gives the tool dimensions and shows its use.

Each step in the progression is shown cold with the tool. the explanation is given and then the step performed hot at the anvil.

This DVD is better than his Bear's head in terms of quality.

I've just had a look at Darryl's new DVD.
He sent it down to me to help edit.

I think he plans to have it up for sale in the next couple of weeks.

You can contact Darryl at
firemtforge@hotmail.com

I'm attaching some photos (stills from video)

The upset is to put material into the area either side of the weld area to allow for wastage and for thinning while blending in the toe of the scarf.

The important things for me are
1. Slope to the end of the scarf or you will be left with cracks post welding
2. Thin the toe (end) of the scarf so that it is smaller than the bar too which it will be welded (anvil effect)
3. Weld only when the bars are wet
4. Bars won't weld when 'crusty'
5. Support the bars on the side of the anvil when bringing them together

I make a bolster plate (actually more of a block) to represent a swage block.
I then taper a bar and upset it into the square hole in the block.
I make my design (or not -with a flatter) and then punch and drift for a handle.

Here some split work has been fullered (using the spring fuller on the anvil saddle) to isolate material to forge a leaf from.

Is the anvil saddle 3/8" channel or does it need to be 1/2"? It appears that you've tapered the edge of the anvil presumably to use with tighter constructions.
Thanks for your excellent help as usual.

Mine is 1/2-inch thick. The edge does taper from about 1/8 diameter at the edge back at about a 45 degree angle.

If I were to make another, I would have the leading edge stand out from the side of the anvil by 1/2-inch plus for those times when I just don't have enough clearance from the edge of the anvil.

Attached photo is the type of thing I do at the saddle

I hadn't noticed that the spring fuller isn't attached to the anvil saddle. Duh..
So, your picture actually shows two tools that don't necessarily have anything to do with each other. The spring fuller could go in the hardy by itself.

The saddle looks to be 3/8" plate or channel. So it becomes a mini-anvil but has the capacity to hold various hardies.

That's correct

The spring fuller is used to fuller something that has two (or more) prongs to it and therefore needs to be used with the anvil saddle for clearance.

Mark,
I like that idea. I'm using heavy-walled 1" square tubing for my hardy shank. It ends up nearly crimped together on the bottom end so it would be fairly simple to drill it out and thread some allthread in or weld a bolt on the bottom. BTW, what is that tool used for? some type of fuller?
Thanks

The fuller is a part that can be switched out.
The tool itself is an anvil saddle. It is used to forge those things that rest very close to something else - for example the tines on your BBQ fork.
The 'spare' leg fits under the saddle allowing you to work on the other leg.

The spring fuller is something that I use when I am splitting stock to form a branch and I want to put some leaves on the branch.

I tap and thread my hardy hole pegs for things that I don't want moving around too much.

I place a bit of half round with a hole in it for my washer under the anvil - this grabs a bit better than a flat washer.

I have shown my anvil saddle that I use for split work as that was my only photo showing the threaded peg.

If I had a business renting DVDs, all I would have to do is buy one DVD from a manufacturer. I could not copy it, but I could rent it as many times as I wanted until it became dysfunctional.

When a smith makes a DVD (professionally) there are quite a few fees involved - not least of which is the cost of the camera and editing software etc.

As the numbers of smiths in the USA is somewhat finite -and not a large number- the said smith is relying on a number of sales to get to a break even point.

If that 'would be' market rents the DVDs instead of buying, then the smiths venture will turn to naught and he'll go back to selling 'T' shirts.

I do not produce DVDs - but I will one day. Some smiths are already.
It won't be much fun if the well runs dry through lack of support.

Sometimes free can be very expensive!

Just my .02 worth.

Mark
Beautiful piece
I would never believed it only took 8 hours to texture
What gauge and was it done hot or cold?

10ga steel with the texture done cold.
I have #5 fly press.
Tooling is basically a fuller on top with a swage on the bottom. All edges heavily relieved.

Trunk of a tree. Four pieces of 1/8 plate textured under a fly (screw) press.
The pieces formed a quarter circle as the texture was applied.
The texture was mapped out on some edges to allow it to run across the joins.
Mig welded together.
Cutting sheet and texture takes 1 day (8 hours) tooling already made.
Welding in addition.

A glove with a hole in it is no longer a glove.

I wanted to move this thread back to the first page as there is another thread - Upset helper - that will be using this information.

My only problem is the transition, and I now know exactly what caused it and how to avoid it.

My reply is academic at this point as I have not physically done it myself.

I have shown the collar as a half round, but there is no reason that I can think of as to why the collar cannot be half 'tear drop' shaped if a tear drop shape is how you want the rose hip to look.

A bottom swage with the half tear drop shape will have to be made (I think there is a 'how do you make hardy tools?' thread on the first or second page of this forum. That will get you to making the blank stage.

The take some round bar - let's say 5/8 round and holding your hammer at an angle draw down one side until you have your full tear drop shape.

You may need to do a little filing to get exactly what you want.

This is the master that you will drive half way in to the bottom swage blank.

This has been a very good thread as it has linked an number of threads together. Why upset by hand, why bother to learn how to make a bottom swage, why dress the stock when making a scroll form or jig.

I wont be at the CBA conference as I will be at the BAM conference. But if you can go early and participate in the Thursday workshop. Speak to John West about your interest. He will help you with the bottom swage.

Thank you for posting the results of your efforts.

OK, I had a chance to try out the forge welded collar idea. It did not work too well. The big end was fine, and the collar closed fine. The problem was at one point I had a big fat cylinder on the end of the rod. The inside end had to be blended in with the base rod. This is not easy. As one tries to taper it down to blend in, the rod at the juncture is also getting thinned. Eventually, one gets to the unpleasant conclusion in which the rod is thinned excessively, and a notch appears that cannot be closed with either more flux or more heating. Any more attention overly thins the transition.

I suspect that there is one step missing from the collaring operation. The transition area must be pre-thinned, before forge welding the collar on. In other words, a wedge shaped collar (thinned on the inside) should be wrapped and welded. The photos above show a fine example of a blocky collar being welded on, but this does not address the smooth taper that is required for a rose hip. In a sense, this is exactly the reason that the lip of a scarf must be thinned.

Does this sound reasonable?

I agree with your observations about the upsetting helper. You only need a slight depression in the surface of the steel for it to be compressed by the upsetting action and turned into a cold shut.

I am attaching a cross section of a half round collar about to be welded to a bar.

Whenever you bend a bar, the surfaces will change.
There will be lipping and cupping and the edges will be moved relative to the center.

I am hoping that I have a photo to show this. I do! This is 1 by 1/2 bar bent over in a 3/4 inch bend and cut in half. Look at what has happened to the edges. The inner and outer surfaces have also curved, but that is a different issue.

As you wrap the half round onto the bar the same action takes place - requiring the closing of the edges on the side of the anvil. Make sure that you keep the stem off the anvil at this point or you will cause some damage to the stem.

Don't spent a lot of time on the face of the anvil trying to weld the collar on. Most of the welding will take place at the edge of the anvil. Avoid making your cylinder (too much).

I hope this helps

Just to finish this up a little, there was a thread about a scroll starter a few days ago. It was mentioned that as you form the scroll tool or jig, you should stop and dress the outer surface to rid it of the lipping and cupping. I'm hoping that my photo shows why that is the case.

That seems like a clever way of making a tenon.

DKForge,
Does the tool absolutely have to have crisp inside corners?

This would be an area of weakness for me. A round inside corner would be much stronger.

For a double bend on such a tight dimension, I would fold the bar over a 1/4-inch thick bar and form a 'U' shape.
Take another heat and re-insert the 1/4-inch bar but leave a slight gap in the end - I would start with 1/4-inch.

Clamp the whole thing vertically in the vice with the back of the 'U' pointing skyward and drive the 'U' onto the 1/4 inch bar.

The trick is to arrive at 90 degrees at the same time the inside of the bend reached the end of the 1/4-inch bar.

A 1/4-inch bar with round edges will give you a little more forgiveness.

I have not done this with wrought and that is my unknown for this method. I have done this with steel, but with 1/2 inch stock.

.02

to make a hot cutter...how thick does the metal need to be? when is too thin or too thick?

I use a hot cut chisel for most of my cuts. The only time I reach for a hardy hot cut is when I am trying to isolate material for a tenon.

In that case my hardy cut off is a 'Butcher' blade style having support of the blade on one side only.

The chamfer from the edge is 45 degrees and the thickness of the hardie about 5/16 where the chamfer ends.

I have two of the forgemaster forges. One in my shop and the other in my shoeing rig.

Both are over 10 years old.
I don't think the igniter worked from the get-go, but everything else has been very satisfactory.

They are quite economical to run, get hot quickly (10 minutes) and reach more than an adequate welding temperature.

The corrugated floor allows for the heat to circulate under the heated material.

I heat up to 1 1/2 square bar in this forge with no problem.

One more bit to think about: If you're making ribbon scrolls or any kind that simply taper to the end, you have no worries.

However if you're doing solid stub end, halfpenny or any kind of scroll that doesn't, you'll need to plan for that in the jig making and leave room for it.
A good example is the solid stub end scroll. If you try to start it on the scroll jig, two things are likely to happen. The first is you will almost never get a good curve started and the second is, you're likely to start a crack right at the point of the snub. So with a scroll like this, it's best to start it by hand and eye. After you have the good start, on to the jig. The jig for scroll like this, will need to leave room for first inch or two.

Gerald is quite right in pointing out this addition to the scrolling jig. Mind you, he should be...it is his area of expertise.

Many a good scroll end has been ruined by forcing it onto an improper jig.

Jeff,
There are a few colleges/universities around that still offer blacksmithing/metalworking endorsed degrees. It is an art degree from what I understand.

H
Peyton


I think the American College of Building Arts in NC offers a 2 and a 4 year degree also.

I try and take at least one course a year, and by doing so I have made significant gains in my understanding and abilities as far as blacksmithing goes.

I do spend a little time researching a potential instructor.. their teaching style vs my learning needs.

I have taken a number of farrier courses - shoe building.
If you want to understand working at the bick or horn or working top tools, look at an accomplished farrier.

I had an instructor who camped on me to move my hammer back 1/4 inch towards the bick. This went totally against what I thought I should be doing. I am so grateful that he stuck to his guns... it made the world of difference.

Green you grow; ripe you rot!