Mark Aspery

I get to use one of those each time I teach at Darryl Nelson's. Indeed, a very sweet machine.
The time saving alone has to make it economically viable.

I would be inclined to move away from the punched round hole and go more towards a slot (or slit) punched hole and then open that out to a oval (or hammer eye) shape.
That way the long axis is taken care of.
The slot punch is easier to orient along the axis of your work.

Nice tools, but of them all I like the woodworkers gauges the best.

I just hung some doors into existing frames and one of those would have been handy.

I ended up using a metalworkers 'dog leg' scribe.

Enjoy your tools.

I'm having a work trip to Portland (USA) next weekend/next week. I'll have one day off, so is there anything interesting (blacksmithing related or not) to see/visit?

One thing that I hope to find, that I haven't seen here in Finland, is a butcher's block brush with stiff wide bristles. Should I look for a hardware or a kitchen supplies shop to find one?

If you have transport, take a trip out to Mt Hood and Timberline lodge. I think this is about 1 hours drive. There is a lot of blacksmithing examples in the lodge.

The restaurant serves a fine breakfast.

North of Portland a fraction is fort Vancouver. They usually have a blacksmith doing demos. Very colonial.

You can try and fine butcher block brushes in Portland, but my guess is that it will have to be ordered.

You might want to have them coming to your hotel as you fly.

Books should be there.

I use it when I repair anvils around the hardy hole.
I cut a piece to fit the hardy (exactly) and then weld up to it. The block acts as a dam and prevents me from having to do as much grinding down in the hole.

For me,
Aside from the usual safety procedures I have two areas of concern.
I know, that in my shop, I am most likely to get burned by handling a hot drift or when adjusting tongs.

Whenever I am drifting material, I always get out a pair of rivet tongs prior to starting. This prevents the momentary lapse of reasoning when I think that I can pick a drift up quickly from the floor and avoid getting burned.

There are two areas that concern me when adjusting tongs.
1.) handling a small amount of stock to size the jaw and
2.) adjusting the reins to fit.

Typically I size the jaw with a small piece of stock and then, to adjust the reins, replace the small piece of stock into the jaws and clamp the jaws in the vice.

Handling the small stock (previously heated by adjusting the jaws) and handling the tongs with a heat in the reins both cause problems.
I don a pair of loose fitting welding gloves whenever I adjust a pair of tongs.
Loose so that I can shake the glove quickly from my hand if I need to.

As they say "stupid hurts"

Stout hooks! How are they to be used?

does anyone know where the best place to find a blueprint for a beginer to make animal heads for fire place tools

You might try contacting Darryl Nelson for one of his DVDs (Bear's and Lynx heads)
Darryl's E-mail is firemtforge@hotmail.com

I've seen it here a bunch of times but it is easier for me just to ask.
Where is the best and quickest way to get Mark"s books?
Sorry to be kinda lazy!
Thanks
Billy

You can go to Amazon.com and order them if you want to pay by Credit card.
If you order directly from me (markaspery.net) then I sign the books to you.

My apologies to IFI participants, I try to keep self promotion and commerce out of my postings. Thank you for your tolerance.

I am reading Chapter 16 of Mark Aspery's excellent book (volume 1).

In the chapter about making bottom tools, we are advised to make a heading plate for the creation of these tools.

Why make this instead of just using the hardy hole that they will eventually be used in?

My guess is to avoid stress on the anvil in case the tool gets cold during the construction, but the reasoning is never spelled out in the book.

Doug

For me it comes down to two things.
1.) I think that the forces involved in upsetting such a large mass in the Hardy is above the call of duty for an anvil. With a dedicated block, you can mount to the middle of the anvil face and get a much better return to your hammer blow.

2.) I worry about the heat transfer from the swage to the anvil. I know that I can season my heading block (large Wally Yater swage block 125 lbs) with oil mid point through the upsetting process - that's got to run 430+ F. I would worry about effecting the heat treatment of the anvil around the hardy hole.

I like to use coke as my fuel source as it requires very little fire management and burns smokeless. It is hard to start without wood kindling. It will also go out quite quickly if not tended. But clean and hot......

As far as coal goes.
There are grades to each type of coal, anthracite and bituminous.
I find that the anthracite doesn't coke very well and burns with a hot flame - out of the fire. By that I mean there tends to be a large flame above the fire.
That said, I have used Anthracite in a rice size and had very little flame.

Bituminous will form coke and you should ask for the 'coke button index' or the 'free swelling index' - (two names for the same thing). This will tell you the ability of the coal to form coke.

Whichever fuel source you select, it needs to be a 'metallurgical' grade with low Sulphur and phosphorous. Both of these chemicals affect the steel adversely.

I like to use a handled slot (flat ended) punch with the handle set off at about a 30 degree angle.

Rightly or wrongly, I typically punch from one side only on bars 1 inch thick and under - there are pros and cons to this. Anything over 1 inch and I come in from both sides. This means that your layout has to be pretty close prior to starting.

One of the disadvantages in using a handled punch is that you cannot turn the punch around after each cooling. If you are off with the grind of your tool, turning it after each cooling helps you to 'zig-zag' along the centerline of the stock as opposed to drift off to one side. Make sure the tool is ground square.

Punching such a large bar will tend to cook your tool pretty quickly so I would use an air hardening alloy or something like Atlantic 33 (which is a water quench and no temper tool steel - very handy for this type of work)

Steel (generic) tends to shrink about 1/4 inch over 12 inches when cast from liquid to solid. I think that works out to be somewhere near 2% shrinkage.

If you intend to pass another bar through your hole when finished then your drifts need to be a little over-size. I would try for something larger than 2% to allow for a little slop during assembly.

Drifting is the key to this little problem. From my experience, drifts push rather than pull. That is, if your slot is too long, you will see evidence of the slot post drifting. If you want thick sides to your hole you will have to slot long and then upset the material around the slot prior to drifting (in the same way as a square blocking)

I would have multiple drifts on hand, each bigger than the last, to open your hole out by degrees.

You will have to find a way to support the bar as you drift. You may have to drift over the jaws of the vice if you do not have a swage block (or something similar) with a large enough hole in it. I would make a bolster plate (or two) to drift over - to prevent the material being pushed down any hole that you use.

You will be using very large bars - consider the radiant heat and dress accordingly.

If you do not intend to upset the slot punched hole prior to drifting, then the hole should be about as long as your final drift is in diameter. I would use a smaller sized slot punch and use it like a hot cut - for example use a 1 inch long slot punch and overlap the cut by 1/2 inch to create a 1 1/2 inch long slot. This can help with the sticking punch problem. Make sure that the edges of your punch are half rounds and not corners.

I understand that a large part of this text is teaching you how to suck eggs, but other, perhaps less experienced, smiths will be reading this thread.

i thought, practice, repetition, tongs and tools. and lots of it?

For my thoughts, I always view practice as making permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect!

I was always told that you can "take the measure of a blacksmith by the quality of the tools that they make."

But and its a big but.... I had ongoing training within an apprenticeship system.

Set projects with specific qualities of the outcome.

The first project was to make six chisels - cape, gouge and a diamond bit. Two of each, one for surface work and one for deeper work.

Then I had to carve a 1 inch cube void into one side of a 2 by 2 block. This soon showed me the quality problems of my chisels and their heat treatment.

I don't know how many times I made those chisels and started carving out the cube void.

Do what you do well and look honestly at the results. Forge with your eyes open and look at what is happening to the steel as you work. If it didn't do what you wanted it to do then you hit it wrong!

If you always do what you've always done - then you'll always get what you've always got before. Look at your results and question your technique.

Match the hammer angle to the taper angle and avoid hammer marks in your piece.

Tongs... yes - but make them well.

Alas, I'm starting to ramble...

Where would you look for mineral oil in quantities of around 10-15 gallons? Or... If mineral oil is a better quenching medium that vegy oil, about 20 gallons... Wifey bought herself a rocksaw and needs mineral oil for lubricant. I'm thinking it would be a bit expensive to dump that much unscented baby oil in there.

Mike,
I can get mineral oil from my local NAPA in large quantities. Or try your local airport mechanic.

I think it comes down to elastic and plastic deformation and tensile strength.

At what point will the steel die move and recover vs moving and not recovering or worst yet yield and shear - resulting in a chipped die.

It will be worth doing your homework for this project.

hope this post is in the right bit

near eagle farm, brisbane,

I need a blacksmith occasionally to part time with a view to more work, general forge work making blacksmith tools and general setup of workshop.
suit semi retired or competent hobbyist.
lacky provided in most cases.

msg or email me your number if interested


also happy to show people in my area, if they want an introduction to a bit of forging and fab.

thankyou.

Have you contacted Ian Parminter of 'Ferrocity'? I think he teaches near Brisbane and may have a student looking for some more experience.

Mark,
Have you experience with using S7 for tools? Found source for it as well as H13. Pondering what would make good dies (top and bottom) for power hammer that is 'under construction'. I know....I know....I tend to tilt at windmills. What can I say???? ;-)

I personally would opt for a 4140 or 4340 material - only because it is in my very narrow range of understanding.

I don't think H13 is particularly suitable... an 'S' series may be but that is above my pay-scale.

You might post this as a separate question on the forum and try and get Grant (nakedanvil) to post a comment. He has some experience in this area.

I would use a topic like 'Nakedanvil don't read this!":D

That should get his attention.

Wowza...that was REALLY helpful info. I definitely appreciate it!
I have some pieces of 4340. The other flavors might be harder to come by, but at least now I know what to be keeping my eye out for. Would the 4340 'work' for the 1045 or 4317?
Seems I will bet hot on the trail (pun intended) of forging as opposed to milling.
Thanks again!

I got some 4340 from Grant (nakedanvil) I really like what it does for me in terms of tool-making.

I would now seek it out over other steels for general tool-work.

Crispy, Mark Aspery (sp) has a really good video on youtube showing the making of an acanthus leaf....Should be able to find it if you look for mark under the search feature. Must've watched it a dozen times...


Nevermind, Mark beat me to it :-)

This is the link to the YouTube site
YouTube - The Forged Acanthus Leaf

I have the ISBN to the Metzger book as
3-88746-135-5

Your bottom tools (Swages fuller etc) - as a 'general' rule I make mine from mild steel and then case harden them. This is my treatment for all but 'edged' tools such as the cut-off hardy (this I make from tool steel).

For most bottom swages I use (for a 1-inch hardy hole) about 4 to 4 1/2 inches of 1 1/4 inch square bar.
I draw a blunt taper to one end and drive it into a swage block or suitable alternative with a 1 inch square hole in it.

The taper will be driven part way into the square hole and then will start to be upset.

I sop when the mass is about 1 to 1/8 inches thick.

The last thing is to drive in (or carve out) the shape that you want.

I like to consider this a blacksmithing approach rather than a machinists approach as it gives me more time with a hammer in my hand.

Thanks John, I can always count on you good people coming up with the goods. I found a link in the gallery with a more accurate picture. I'll try my luck with the book but if anyone in the meantime has a template / pattern, my email address is csfuller@adam.com.au

Heres the link.

Thanks fellas. I found a suitable pattern on the artmetal web site. Thanks for giving me the name of the leaf "Acanthus" - most helpful.

You can try and find an ABANA publication - Spring 1983 - a 10th Anniversary issue. It details 60 patterns of the 'Acanthus style (and other similar) leaves.

It details Max Metzger's (German) book on blacksmithing.
Metzger's book has been a bible to me.

I think it is a 1929 publication.

I know that these are thin leads....

Greetings everyone!

I have been having issues with my hands. As you might be able to see from the photo, I have a blister from my hammer handle. The handle is not rough or anything, and I dont like using gloves because you cant feel the hammer. Heres the photo...How exactly does one hold a hammer properly? I have also been having pain in my forearm. Tennis I think...I hope not hehehe. I dont hold the hammer with my thumb flat against the handle or anything...to my knowledge, I'm holding it properly. Any help, tips or photos would be great! Thanks guys! Cheers!

I would say that both the friction spot (blister) and the elbow pain are not to be ignored - or at least ignore them at your peril.

Whether you choose to use the Hofi style or the more 'traditional' style of holding and swinging a hammer, the idea is to hold the hammer handle with the most relaxed grip that you can.

If your hammer handle is round, I think that you need to hold it quite firmly in your hand to prevent it from turning as you work. Rasping some flats onto the sides will allow the hammer to stay in place with less effort.

Keep your thumb off the top of the handle!

Hold your hand in the air now - in a relaxed grip.
Now place the knuckle of your thumb on top of your first finger knuckle - can you feel the muscular tone going through the hand and the wrist.

Dress the face of the hammer for success. A flat faced hammer is anything but. Mine have about 1/16 inch rise from the edge to the center of the face.

This will allow the hammer to track right. That is up and down in a vertical channel (allowing for a more relaxed grip) If the hammer face is dead flat then unless you hit the anvil (or stock) dead flat, the hammer will ricochet away from the side that hit first necessitating holding the hammer with a firmer grip.


Keep your elbow in towards your body.
The elbow joint is like a screwdriver placed into an indent. Keeping your elbow in will allow the joint to move as it should. Keeping your elbow out will be like prying the indent apart with the screwdriver.

Anvil height is also a big factor. If the anvil is too low you may be hyper (over) extending the elbow with each hammer swing.

Okay, I will make several things over the course of the day that require welding. However, the indoor items after a period of time begin to "sweat borax." Is there anyway that this can be avoided?

I like to pickle pieces in a vat of vinegar for a day or so. That prevents any residue from creeping out to the surface at a later time.

white vinegar is 5% acid.

Hope this one is not too dumb to post. very simple, but surprisingly useful. I just split (with a hand hack-saw) a 1" square bar down about 2-1/2 inches, bent the sides open, stick a piece of flat bar in between and close them on it. I like it for tweakin' and twisting. In fact if you make up a bunch of them (different sizes) they work real nice for twisting bars. You should file the edges a little rounded and you can use it for bending. Simple as dirt!

Grant,
I see what you mean about the late nights and early mornings.

Does this stuff keep you awake at nights?

You should have gone high speed years ago... we'd all be further along with our smithing if you had!

As a time & problem saver...
Have you tried using just two pieces of steel instead of four?

Let's say that you want an 8 inch basket (round bar).
Start with 16.5 inches of material and fold it in half. The extra 1/2 inch is for the bend.
That leaves you with a hair clip shape.

Feed one set of open ends over the other rather like feeding fingers together of opposite hands -so that the hairpins now overlap one another, a bend at either end of the cluster.
This is a far more stable shape, has fewer ends to come apart and you have extra material (with the bend) for your forge welds on to other bars.

It worked for me when I needed it to.

For square bar fold over on the diagonal and then intertwine.