Ric Furrer

Das Zweischneidige Schwert Der Germanischen Vo:lkerwanderungszeit von Elis Behmer  1939

Good book. Translates as "The double edged sword of the German walking around period"...or close.

BR...get to a museum or private collection. If you have no such contacts then attend a few of the Antique arms shows that are around the US. Baltimore has a good one as does Las Vegas. You get to pick things up off the tables and meet folk who know stuff.

Ric

I have many students through the shop and they are rough on the fiber wool lining. Flux will also eat through the wool.

In general for light forgings and on/off use the wool is very good. For longer burns and full day use the refractory is good.

The greater mass takes longer to heat up, but that thermal mass will allow you place large amounts of metal in there and get less temp drop than wool alone.

For long days of forging I have a preheat chamber for the stock to be fed into the forge so the exhaust gas warms the next bars to place into the forge.

Industry has blocks of the fiber wool in pre-made bundles and they are bolted in place to line the furnaces. Others spray the refractory cement into place much like gunning in cement for construction jobs.

I rather like Mizzou plus castable, but I have several thousand pounds of the stuff. I also like the Bio safe wool that has come on the market of late. Superwool® HT is one brand.

Ric

"real" hydraulic pumps are rated by how many cubic inches they displace per revolution not in GPM,  half the revolutions half the volume.

Larry is correct and has pointed out in the past that a single displacement pump often produces more flow at the lower flow rate of the hi/low pumps than the hi/low pumps.

In short...if you do not need the high flow/low pressure option on the press then go with a single displacement pump maxing out the power of the motor.

My next HYD unit will be able to move the 14" cylinder I have at 1" second...which should be fun to use. Still not the power that Larry has on his large press, but....

Ric

Zanto listen to Steve.

I recall some knifemakers near Chattanooga, but none spring to mind.

Larry Harley is in Bristol, TN.

Ric

I just sold my 50 weight Moloch hammer (owned for 20 years). It was bolted on a 4x4 foot 2" thick steel plate with four rows of glued on 2x4 under to allow for a pallet jack to fit under. She walked a bit when running, but never too bad...made for easy moving when needed...to the forge and away. I have a 6" thick concrete floor.

Ric

Yes...I ran a 22 GPM two stage pump rated at 10hp 3600RPM off a 5hp 1750 Rpm motor. It makes half the GPM at same pressures. Runs quieter as well.

I set the PSI at 2950 and to my knowledge and the gauge..it did peak very close to that the pressure. 

Ric

I had a similar "window frame" press. It used two 1.5" 1144 rods which ran the length to transfer the 35 ton load.

I called mine "sponge bob" as it had a yellow kevlar blanket covering the hydraulics.

Sold it years ago.

Ric

Unsure where...a teenager was interested in building a forge and doing work so I thought it nest to get him to  a person.

Long country indeed.....

Ric

Hello All,

I received an email from a young man in Chile looking to learn blacksmithing...anyone have a contact there?

Ric

Basher,

I can fit 20 pounds into an international postal box if you wish.

I'll write.."not cocaine"... on the box to be sure it gets to you. Wrapped up all nice with plastic and tape and coffee beans.

Ric

Best to machine your own.

Ric

My shop sits on a 75 ft deep clay layer. I poured 4 yds of concrete with rebar for the foundation for a 100 lb LG. When working large pieces of 4140, that hammer would "rattle the china" in a cabinet, in the neighbor's house 1000ft away. The little old lady said that I didn't break anything and she didn't mind because it sounded like soft wind chimes. She liked me as a neighbor.

 

Now that lady has died, the old LG moved on and was replaced by a Large Big Blu hammer, set on the same foundation and again when forging tough stuff, it will cause the new neighbors dvd player to skip. I have done a number of favors for the folks across the road and I try to never run the hammer after dinner. So all is well. The moral of the story is sub soil is everything when it comes to hammers.

 

I was told, in order to solve this issue, I would have to dig all the way through the clay, to bedrock and build back up with the appropriate foundation. Not gonna happen

Brian...get thee a hydraulic press for the larger work.

Ric

I have a nickel anode from an electroplating works, probably about 4kg

Those are very high in sulphur.

Jim do you think a 140-160 ton is adequate for a bulldozer?

I may wish to bend a sewing needle or 1/2" rebar and may need more push. :rolleyes:

Actually I worry about the seals on such cylinders...I know many are used horizontal, but I heard it was bad for the seals.

Ric

if the cylinders are the same size and the flow to both are equal, same length and size of hoses and pipes it should not be possible for them to get out of synch unless the work is places so far out that one ram can move with out the guides or work raising the pressure in the one ram

 

lets say one is pressed down about 0,01mm more then the other the pressure will be higher in that one as the resistance will be more then the other ram will have to move to equalize the pressure

 

so the way I see it if you have a press with two cylinders placed apart some, so the dies surface is between the two cylinder rods and just to go for over kill there also is some prober guides you are home safe that also makes it possible to have a press with downward motion and at the same time have the cylinders in the bottom part of the machine?

 

if you imagine a half of a 4 post press with the two posts being cylinders so the press is pushing on the pull stroke of the cylinders.

 

that is how I am planning to build my press with the two long 5" cylinders I got, calculated to end up with 38tons

The two cylinder press I had (since sold) was acting up one day...one ram traveled a bit faster. The flow divider had malfunctioned and a new one fixed the issue.

It may have been caused by the bad flow divider, but maybe not.

All my future presses will have only a single cylinder. I have been lucky in locating surplus cylinders from 4-14 inches in bore. I have one that is 40" tall and 12" bore...has an 8" ram....not sure what I'll do with that one. The think is too tall to bottom mount and is about 1600 pounds.

Ric

Flash back arrestors are for acetylene that can exothermically dissassociate even without the presence of Oxygen!  

 

They also may serve a purpose when combining a lower pressure fuel gas with high pressure O2 that under perverse circumstances could backfill the fuel line.  Oxy-Propane or Oxy-NG

 

On a typical aspirated forge set up they are as useful as having one on a water hose!

Thomas,

As I understood it the arrestor has a mesh inside that melts and stops the flow of gas...in addition to only allowing one way flow.

Ric

I had a line splitter on my last two cylinder press.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Prince-Mfg/RD1075SH-IP-ED-SEQUENCE-VALVE-9-4708.axd

All in all it is simpler to get a larger single cylinder than doubles.

Ric

Basher is correct. Many have claimed a clear coating, but nothing holds up.

ABANA and NOMMA organization members did a study some years ago and the long game says no.

Either live with rust, change materials (titanium is nice) or good paint.

Ric

I do plan to cast anvils and have for some time.

I have invested in two 3,oooHZ 50 KW induction unit, 100kw generator and a large amount of supplementary kit to do the rest.

Only took six years and more $ than I'll admit to anyone but my accountant.

Fools errand for sure and I, gentleman, am that fool.

Kegan I say go for it if you feel you need to, but if you have lucid moments then do other work, get paid and buy an anvil.

Ric

My 3B Nazel is on 4 foot of concrete and rebar. The anvil base is on oak timber cross-stacked about 12" high and coated with tar and covered with plastic to prevent water from coming up the concrete. The hammer is on 1.5" of oak with the same plastic and tar. Both are not saturated with oil.

The concrete pour is isolated from the floor and dirt with 1" foam board insulation...which is to say it is not isolated at all. It was a thought which did not proof out.

When running full out for 45 blows in a row every heat for two days I can feel the vibration through the 6" shop floor and on occasion loose things fall from the anvil and tables....so I would say it is adequate for my light use, but if I were an eight hour a day forge shop then it would not be adequate.

As Forgemaster says..the height is important...especially when it is the exact wrong height. Mine is very close to being exactly wrong so I may lift it out and place a commercial vibration pad in place of one course of wood and raise the anvil and hammer up 4-5".

I need to redo some of the linkages and the guides so the down time may as well be very useful rather than just useful.

BUT 

I am installing a 1,000 weight Niles Bemment Pond steam hammer (converted to air) next year and will give that machine much more thought. it will be outside the current shop and in its own designed space....I am taking the above suggestions to heart for that machine as it needs the support and I need the sleep.

Ric

Look and do some of the work in the COSIRA books (online for free) and if you wish the modern version of these is the three volume (hopefully more in the future) below

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aag/main/ref=olp_merch_name_3?ie=UTF8&asin=0981548008&isAmazonFulfilled=0&seller=A3JLBN78WBH3P3

However...books only get you so far. Best to meet up with a smith at a local hammer-in and go from there. Most have an area set up for folk to use and many smiths will show you something to work on. You must be able to teach yourself at some point, but I find it better to learn from another in he beginning when all is new and foreign. As you build skills you can disappear into your work area, but for now you need outside instruction.

Ric

Ehh is a machines sword really quality? When they use mechanical fullering doesn't it tear up the hardened outer later formed from hammering?

Excluding the idiot magnet term of a $200 cheap hand forged sword. Do those guys actually move swords and make a good chunk of change that they deserve for crafting one? Can they stay afloat as such for their trade or is it pretty much just a side thing?

Wilderness,

Your statement about the fuller concerns me a bit. Please explain how hammering makes the steel hard. Are you referring to work hardening by creating strain int he steel via pounding? Such an effect is negated upon heating to normalize after forging is complete.

As to market and such for modern swordmaking:

It is a sliver of a niche market and one sells to a small cross-section of clients.

If you are honest about your product then the pool of clients gets even smaller.

If you have other skills I suggest you use them and not turn full time to swords.

As to "deserving" a wage of certain work:

It has intrinsic value to the one making the thing, but do not expect that value to be shared by others. In the end one makes because one can not help but to make.

I appreciate a Jackson Pollock painting, but I do not want to buy one. I understand some of the work of Damien Hirst, but I have no room for the sharktank.

To make art like a well done sword (one worth making) is not done to sell...it is a foolish thing to make in this day and age is it not?..it is done because it is in you and needs to get out. If you find someone who wants to participate in the experience by owning the work, well...that is good too.

Ric

How did knives come up in this thread? The young man asked about going smithing as a job and opening a shop.

Knives are a HORRIBLE way of going broke. It is a niche market at best.

I can see blacksmithing as a means to make gardening kit, simple jewelry, small architectural pieces (that do not need installing like tables,lamps,kitchen goods etc)....railings and balconies if you have the insurance lied up and all manner of other thneeds.

but I suggest NOT getting into knives as a career.

I suggest making some simple shapes at a blacksmith gathering for a few months. If you can not hang with progress over a few months of weekends then you will not hang with the issues of making items for sale. Learn the simple shapes..taper,upset,chisel cut, scroll, twist forge weld etc and also bandsaws,drill presses,electric welders and grinders. 

NO KNIVES.

edit:

I do not think you need to run a business at this point...unless you are making a business plan and will approach a bank for a large loan to float you for the first year after you rent a space and tool up. A year where you will not know how to make anything and therefor can not sell anything.

Yes learn basic business practices, but you are not at the stage where you can use any of them....yet. Know them yes and apply as required, but you need to get dirty and do some stuff first. Spending time with working smiths at hammer-ins is a good way to do this.

Ric

I have found that the two major noise issues are:

high RPM...if you have a logsplitter pump you could use for example the 22gpm pump run at 1750RPM with a 5hp motor vs the 11gpm pump at 3600RPM. The reduced speed is quieter.

The other is mis-aligmnet...is your mounted with a bell housing between the C-face motor and the bolt on pump or did you line it up yourself and have the lovejoy take up the difference?

I like the powerpack to be on a wheeled cart and use lines with quick disconnects between.

This way the power pack can be used on other things as well as being put further away and not vibrating the press frame.

Ric

Frosty...have I ever told you that I like you? Well...I do.

I have heard the real fire statement a lot.....first in Washington DC when I did a gig at the Smithsonian for two weeks. I thought it odd at first, but became increasingly more bitter as time went on....till it hit me like it has many of you. Other than forest fires on the news and the occasional smoker with a cigarette...where does modern "city man" come into contact with fire? Not very often and it is usually bad.

I was put at ease as time went on by the other craftsmen coming over in the morning to have me repair the kit they brought to demonstrate with....pliers for the Morano Glass guy and chisels for the Pakistani stone carvers etc. The other glass guy from Damascus, Syria had a look at my swords and nodded with a smile...good enough for me (He is most likely dead by now)

Most often folk assume you are making horseshoes...that is what blacksmiths do after all right? Even if it looks like a leaf.

As Thomas says..do not embarrass the adults in front of the children...it is a loosing situation.

One thing I have not yet matured past is my cringe when I hear "my grandfather was a blacksmith". Really? If that were true then half the working class were smiths. What they mean is Papa had a hammer, but at least they remember him eh?

Ric

I love these questions, I think they're my favorite part of doing demos. The very best questions are from the kids while some of the most bone headed are from  their folks.

 

Like the kid who asks he's Dad, is that a real fire? Actually a pretty natural question as we'd coke up the coal early and just burn the breeze so there was very little smoke or flame. Anyway, Dad says, "No, there's a light bulb under the pile with a fan to blow the plastic strips up like flames." I'm thinking,  What flames? then the boy says, "but look, the steel is glowing yellow hot!" I was thinking, this kid's got it down! Dad says, "Oh no, that's a flashlight, it's not hot."

 

Well, I just reach past the anvil and touch the bar to the anvil's block to a burst of smoke a whoosh and ball of flame. "You have it right buddy, that's a real fire, this is real steel and it's really HOT." I think the lady standing behind Dad was maybe his wife for the BIG smile she gave me and the poke she gave Dad. Dad asked if it was okay if the boy stayed and asked questions. You betcha!

 

Dad was a decent sort, just didn't know smithing but the boy expected him to know everything. Kids are like that. We got that a lot, that was just the best one.

 

Mostly I use a propane forge at demos now so I don't hear the real fire questions anymore, the jet engine roar and dragon's breath is answer enough.

 

Part of my normal demo patter is dispelling the mythos of blacksmithing, knowledge and practice, no magic. I tell jokes, stories, describe what I'm doing, why, what the tool/hammer/etc. does, the usual. Usually after a little bit I'm fielding magic jokes and we're all laughing, then here comes this gal in a "mother earth" type gown with a small flock of sycophants taking note of everything she says. She breezes up in front of me gazes significantly at what's going on, picks up a leaf finial coat hook off the table on and asks, "Is this old or did someone make it?"

 

I say, "It's still warm from the fire." Folk in the audience behind her are looking shocked and biting their lips.

 

She says as she exits stage right, "Magic, it's just MAGIC!" The audience and I just stand there watching as she breeze off making more profound observations and her sycophant following diligently writing every word down for posterity. She's maybe just out of earshot when someone in the audience starts laughing and shortly we're all gasping for breath. For the rest of the day I have a pretty full audience and folk keep saying, "it's magic, just MAGIC!"

 

I don't know how many times it happened before I noticed this but on another day at the fair a teacher stops with a batch of elementary kids on a field trip. She asks if I can describe what I'm doing and maybe explain it to the kids. You betcha I can, love kids, best questions in the world. I say hi and tell them my name, teach corrects me with Mr. Frost and that's okay but I wink at the class when she's not looking. I'm IN, and we're off and rolling. I start by asking who knows what THIS is laying my hand on the anvil. One youngster is jumping up and down up front with his hand up so I call on  him. "Its a coyote killer!" He shouts excitedly.

 

Okay, I'm dead in the water for a few seconds, hadn't heard that one before but had to agree, even though it isn't an Acme anvil. Since then I've heard from a number of guys who've heard the same thing from youngsters at demos. One of these days I gotta get me a WilE Coyote stuffed toy to lay under my anvil.

 

My favorite type of questions at demos are the, Can you fix this? Oh baby! I love those almost as much as the kid's questions. I've always seen myself more as the town blacksmith type guy, a generalist who'll take a shot at whatever comes in. "Specialization is for insects." R. A. Heinlein.

 

Frosty The Lucky.