ofafeather

Hear, hear!

Awesome!

Ofafeather, that was a very good reply. I think we were replying at the same time and said alot of the same stuff. I'm still quite slow with my posting and responses.

Thanks, Brian. I think I understand it but haven't had as much chance to put it into practice.~Eric

looks good guys, great pictures as always LDW.
When you forge a shanked tool how do you keep from getting fish lips at the end of the taper? The tools that I forged have bad fish lips, what causes that?

In general with some tool steels the outer layer of the material moves more than the inner core because of a few factors - evenness of heat and the force and penetration of the blow are some. That's what causes fish lips - the outer layer moving but not the core. By concentrating the force of the blows by using top and bottom fullering dies, and using a forceful blow that the striker gives, the blows can penetrate and move more material all the way through to the center. Using a power hammer would have a similar effect if you use the right dies.

Thanks for the tutorial guys!

Thanks, Brian!

Lyle,

Fantastic pictures! It was really great meeting you and Brian. I really learned a lot watching you guys work. Here are some other pictures from the event. http://picasaweb.google.com/Scootinov/NEBA?feat=directlink

Thanks again.

Eric

If you do, Just remember NEVER to leave the hardie in after using it or you will lose digits.

There is no right or wrong way for the anvil to face, use it to get your best results.

Yeah, that's one thing I always make sure of!

Well it depends on what you usually do and how you do it!---(which you haven't mentioned.) In my shop I have anvils that point right, left, straight away, straight towards me and on odd occasions *down*!

If you use the bic a lot you may want it to the right to be right under your hammer hand when you face the anvil. If you seldom use it you may want it to the left so your hammer hand is over the sweet spot on the anvil.

Or you could simple get an anvil with no bic or with two bics and sidestep the problem. (most anvils in the world are not london pattern anvils!)

I have only one anvil. The edges aren't great except on the heel area. I use the bick quite a bit and am right handed. I've had the bick pointing to the right. Maybe I'll try it to the left. It's on a stump and easy enough to move.

The Bick must point to magnetic north under a stained glass window of Hefesto. Each solstice it must be struck three times at exactly midnight..... There shall be only one, Highlander.....

So that's what I've been doing wrong!. I've been oriented to true north under St. George and the Dragon!

What's the "bick" deal anyway? :rolleyes:

Hi, All. I have a single bick anvil and am wondering which way you usually approach it. Does the bick point to the left or right if you're right handed? Also, if you know why that would be great, too.

Thanks!


Eric

Am I risking even more opprobrium by suggesting that there's unlikely to be much that hasn't been thought of in the last three thousand odd years?

Great word! I'll have to try to remember that one.

In a way, your right about the fact that there's not much new under the sun. I think a big part of the difference is the way that information is shared in our internet world. The simple fact that we can share information and have it easily accessible to most people over distances of thousands of miles makes a significant difference.

Traditionally people were limited to acquiring knowledge in their immediate region or they would have to travel to acquire it. Smithing is no different. Just look at how regional styles differ. Eastern, Western, Continental or English, etc. These styles developed over thousands of years, as you said.

Today we are exposed to so many ways of doing things, it's truly fantastic. The other side of the coin, though, is that so many of us hobby smiths are self taught. The idea that everyone knows how to use a hammer is what gets us into trouble.

When you learn from a master you have the possibility of absorbing the long experience of many generations of smiths. The best people in most fields are the ones that have learned from the masters then added to that, based are their insight and experience. Has Hofi done things that have never been done before? I really don't know. I'm not an expert so can't say. At the very least he has expanded on a tradition and brought it to light in a way that hasn't been done before.

In the long run I think that taking the time to analyze what you are doing is the important thing. Why do you do it a certain way? Can you make it more efficient? Is there a better way? Many people will accept the word of the master and leave it at that. The people that get the most out of it are usually the ones who examine the premise and challenge it. If the concept passes the challenge then it stays the way it is. If not, changes are sought.

Hofi has done this. Is it totally unique? I can't say. Surely there are elements that have come to him from other sources. But, each part of his method has at least been analyzed and challenged.

Hammer technique is really important. Even if you're a "natural" it's worth analyzing what you're doing and challenging it. Most athletes, musicians, anyone who needs a technique for something, do this to some degree.

Chances are that the people that think that anyone knows how to use a hammer are right - most people do. BUT, they probably don't know how to use it to best effect and with the least impact on the body. Only thought and experience can really do that.

One other thing that I find amazing is that historically, when there is a new idea, it doesn't always come from a single source. The same or similar ideas develop simultaneously in different, remote locations - from sources that had no contact with each other. That is amazing to me. These days it's not likely to happen that way, since we're all connected!

Great design! Well done.

ofafeather---are you placing your thumb on the top? I prefer to swing a powerhammer with a crane myself...

I think I had my thumb under it. Somehow, I usually end up with my foot in it...and I don't even have a powerhammer! :unsure:

I have a hard time swinging a powerhammer. :blink:

YoungDylan,

That fence is great! Don't want to hijack the thread so I won't ask you if you have any more pictures of it or to describe the materials and details. :rolleyes:

This is true but it's nowhere near as simple as this. Physics also means the weight of the head affects how far into the metal the energy is transferred. You simply wont be able to pentrate as deep with a light hammer. Too light a hammer is almost totatlly useless when upsetting regardles of the speed. All you'll do is peen over the top few mm.

There is no way a 25lb litle giant could work the same stock as a 5cwt massey. Even if the the LG were speeded up many times over it could NOT work the same size stock a 5cwt even if that were slowed down many times. Right hammer for the right job, this is the WEIGHT of the hammer, the length of the shaft, the way it is used and the shape of the faces. There is also the tremendous variation in individual smiths bodies to consider. There is NO one size does all hand hammer, experienced smiths often have a collection of many hammers with possibly a few being favoured more than other.

The ironic thing about that is that using Hofi's style hammer with his swing gripped near the head you can use a hammer with more mass. Many people say that using a 2# hammer held near the end of a long handle is similar to using a Hofi style hammer with a 3# head - you don't have to deal with the leverage the head exerts at the end of a long handle. In the idea that Work=Mass x (Velocity)^2/2 (did I get the formula right? Physics is not my thing!) increasing the mass has an effect on the work produced but increasing the velocity has a much great effect because it is squared. Using a heavier Hofi hammer with increased velocity produces a lot more work.

As you said, while this would be a good general forging hammer a smith should always use the right tool for the job and different style/weight hammers are needed for different work. But as Firebug said, you can adapt this style of swing to any hammer. With a suitable handle they can all work the same way, though again heads with the weight balanced around the eye work better for this.

As I understand it, Hofi can do things with one hammer that I would be hard pressed to do with all the hammers in he world. He forges everything from larger stock to delicate leaves with the same 3# hammer.

John,

Yes, you're right in figuring out what I'm looking to do! Thank you for the detailed instructions and the pictures are worth a lot. In the second scenario (bottom of the back plate) where you split then taper, how do you work and refine the area near where the split joins the main body of the piece? Does punching or drilling a hole at that point help?

Thanks!

Eric

Yep, cast iron to take the heat and resist warping.

Bolt together for projects.

Are they vented, or solid rotors?

I'm guessing venting (not experienced with this stuff) - They have square cross-sectioned channels running from the edges in toward the center. Not sure how far they go in. Would that be vented? If nothing else it increases the surface area to help radiate the heat.

Hi, all. Not sure if the topic has the right terminology but I'm looking to make a slit to make ram's horns scrolls as found on some hooks and hinge straps. I understand the basic idea but I think the finer points of the process eludes me. If I'm working with flat stock I mark the center line and slit or cut the material. What next? What's the best way to work the scrolls? I tried one today just for fun and it was a bit rough. Any thoughts? Also, I've seen a similar design in a hook but I can't tell if they used flat stock or square stock.

Any input is appreciated. Thanks.

Eric

three of them laied out in triangle and welded together make a very stable base for a stand

Rats! Only had the front brakes done! :P

You're right on that point that other hammer makers don't send instructions with their hammers either.

But, as far as I know Hofi is the only one who has made his hammer to be used specifically with his hammering technique - they're two sides of the same coin. And it's this ergonomic technique that is a major draw for some smiths ... like me ... that is, smiths who want to learn how to hammer effectively and not mess up their joints. I'm already experiencing some elbow pains, and I bought into Hofi's hammer hoping to learn this technique (which was strongly recommended by many smiths on IFI). I was very disappointed when I got no information about the technique at all with my hammer - not even a photocopied pamphlet.

I guess my point is that if we are going to recommend the Hofi hammer to new smiths, I think we should also inform them that buying the hammer will not include the technique - they're going to have to buy both parts separately.

I agree with you, Sam. Fortunately, I was lucky in that it was made clear to me that the hammer only helps if you know the technique, hence buy the DVD or, even better, take a class with Hofi. Maybe someone will make a sticky out of the Hofi Hammer and Ergonomic Technique with detailed info. I have to say, I bought the hammer through Glenn. He was very helpful and spent a lot of time with me on the phone describing the technique. Guess I was lucky.

I think forums are great but there isn't always a concentration of complete information in on area. If you're lucky you find the complete info you need or at least know that you need to ask a question. It can be dangerous when you think you have the complete picture but don't.

Guess the other side of the coin is that you shouldn't have a hard time selling your Hofi hammer if you decide you don't use it enough. ;)

How many lug bolt holes are in the rotor? It can be used as a lay-out tool. Insert the lug bolts and it can be used as a bender. There is always the use as feet for stock stands etc. You may want to nest a couple together to make up the weight needed for some projects. There are all manner of uses and possibilities. (grin)

Glenn, 5 lugs holes, also each has 2 smaller holes about 1/4" diameter. The hub/axle hole is about 2 1/4" diameter.

Personally, if a master smith came to me and explained how s/he holds a hammer and how s/he swings it to get the best results, I would be interested. I can't really imagine someone not being interested. Knowing and understanding a concept gives you the choice of using it or not. Yeah, I'll take the instructions, thanks! :)

For interested parties (like me!) here is a link to John's post in the other thread with his great step-by-step directions.

Thanks, John!

Yes, that means blade size. It is considered an 18"-20", I also have one with a 16" blade cap. Picked them up inexpensively, so I jumped on them.

For the 16" I traded a smaller home type RAS that I had paid $60 for. It was missing the stand, because the guy couldn't load it in his truck with the stand attached. He paid $25 for it at a military surplus retail sale, and was just going to use parts off of it.

The 20" was found on the Vegas Craigslist for $250, and included a new 18" blade. Loaded that one by myself into the back of the truck with a sheet of subflooring, and a come-along. Turns out it weighs around 800# Actually didn't take that long to load up.

Wow! What's the range of cut you can get on the 20? (18") I can cut 11" wide by about 2 1/2 deep with the 9". Sounds like you can get 8+ inches deep!

Ooooh! Great ideas. More please! Keep'em coming!