Forging Carver Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 So I decided to get knife making out of the system today. It is going to be a throwing knife. I made it from a piece of a Bellota farrier rasp, if i remember how to spell it correctly. I think it turned out ok for a first go. I started to grind it and now I think it is ready for heat treat. Anything you think I should do grinding before I heat treat it? Also, what is a good color to temper it to since it will be a throwing knife? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony San Miguel Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Maybe you'll get lucky but many Bellota farrier's rasps are case hardened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 You may want more polish so you can see the colors run easier when you go to temper it. Remember it's easier to grind before you harden it, then afterwards. You don't want a thin edge just yet, as that will burn off easily when heating, but you want the majority of finish work done so all that is left is the final edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony San Miguel Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I would try to harden a smaller piece of the same rasp before you do a lot more work on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Ok thanks. Great I hope this wasnt case hardened should have tested. I read something that it wasn't. I broke the piece of the file by hitting it with a hammer over the edge of the anvil, not sure if thats a good sign? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I'd leave a throwing knife dead soft annealed, you'd rather it bend than break if it hits a rock on the ground. Throwers don't really need an edge, just a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Oh that's a good tip of advise thanks What about handles, any ideas for a throwing knife handle cause I know wood might break. 14 minutes ago, Michael said: I'd leave a throwing knife dead soft annealed, you'd rather it bend than break if it hits a rock on the ground. Throwers don't really need an edge, just a point. So do you mean let it air cool or cool it in sand. Maybe do it a few times? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 37 minutes ago, Forging Carver said: So do you mean let it air cool or cool it in sand. Maybe do it a few times? Thanks Normalize, air cool, a few times from progressively less heat a bit over non magnetic right before it changes and a bit under Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 I'm not sure which to do. Some say to leave untreated but others on blade forums say to heat treat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenthunderbolt Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I'd say quench just the tip, and temper the tip end 30mm (inch and a 1/2 ish) to a blue temper. For a thrower you want to be able to get a fairly strong tip sharpened in for penetration. Leaving the rest of the body annealed/air cooled soft is good advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 4 hours ago, Frozenthunderbolt said: I'd say quench just the tip, and temper the tip end 30mm (inch and a 1/2 ish) to a blue temper. For a thrower you want to be able to get a fairly strong tip sharpened in for penetration. Leaving the rest of the body annealed/air cooled soft is good advice. Seems like your best bet, remove forging stress and decrease grain size then ht tip so it stays sharp could clay the rest of it if it's hard to heat just the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Nah I'm the master at heating only one end. Only when I just got my new coal I could heat one end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 3 minutes ago, Forging Carver said: Nah I'm the master at heating only one end. Only when I just got my new coal I could heat one end! Oh yea, what size did u end up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Size of the knifeand? The knife around 6-7inches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 8 minutes ago, Forging Carver said: Size of the knifeand? The knife around 6-7inches The coal but yea that 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 The smithing coal he bought at Peoples down the street from Andrews shop is from about 3/4" down to fines, though there are a few occasional bigger pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 5 minutes ago, DSW said: The smithing coal he bought at Peoples down the street from Andrews shop is from about 3/4" down to fines, though there are a few occasional bigger pieces. Ah ok, weaverland got a load of nut insted of pea this time, still burns good, don't like the size though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I need to try and get to the shop later today. I'll try and take a pict of what I bought there if I remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 I'll take a pict. The coal is great and burns hot! Only issue is that I didn't realize how much bituminous made smoke first starting out. I was afraid the fire depth was gonna come or a neighbor was gonna complain! But it's much better than anthracite. Will antler work for a throwing knife handle? Deers ram their heads in trees all the time, so I must be strong. Thanks. Here's the coal and what the Coke looks like and how hot it was! What do you use as a air flow cause I think my hair dryer is too much. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Unlike anthracite, you don't need an air blast full time with Bituminous. I have an air gate on my blower that I can close down to restrict the air when I don't have steel in the fire, or when I want a slower heat. Some simply turn the air on and off instead. I know a number of people who use one of those HF foot switches to turn their blower on and off as needed. The coal in the last pict is obviously still green. You don't get flames like that when the coal has coked typically. I keep a pile of coal right up against my fire pot that is slowly coking. I drag small amounts into the fire as needed and that keeps down the smoke. For starting I use coke left from the last fire plus some new fresh coal. I try to get a flame like you have as soon as possible to burn off the smoke, usually by poking a hole in the top layer to let the flames out. I know people who will burn a piece of newsprint in the back of their forge under the chimney to ignite the smoke when starting up as well as to increase the draw until the fire heats up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick O Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 you could make a damper to solve your air problem and antler is very strong but I like the bare metal look and the texture that the rasp teeth leave but if you want to make a handle for the knife I thing antler would be the best bet if you can find some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Dsw can you send me a picture of your forge with the airgate. Also what type of blower so you use? Unfortunately I only have a brake drum as my forge, I need to make or buy another one. Thanks Thanks nick. I will see what antler looks like on it, but I think the bare metal looks pretty cool too. I have a piece of antler from when I used to flint knapp. My brothers friend is a hunter so I can get the entire set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Add coal before you take it apart so you have some fresh coke to start the next fire with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenthunderbolt Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 RE: handle. You want it as smooth as possible for a clean release for a straight or rotational throw. You also don't want to add much weight to the handle end. I would be inclined to leave the handle portion as is, possibly grinding the teeth down a bit smoother. you could dip it in 2 part epoxy to fill the gaps between the teeth and then sand it back to be perfectly smooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 ok. From grinding, the edges are sharp so maybe i will file them done a bit too. The balance is about down center, but I think more weight is in the handle. I am drilling a hole instead of punching so that it will remove some material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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