Historical info: keeping forge scale off heated metal

[Ohio Rusty]

 

I have been reading about how files were made in the early to mid 1800's, forged on an anvil and all the teeth cut by hand. (before machine made). There is an interesting sentence that says the file is dipped in thick brewers grounds before being heated.  I find that intriguing.   What were 'brewers grounds'?  In England, they brewed alot of ale and beer. Could this be the left over residue of hops and other ingredients from beer making ?? Why wouldn't this brewers grounds coating burn off when the files were put in the fire ??

Anyone care to share what they might know or speculate about this anti-scale process ??

Ohio Rusty ><>

The Ohio Frontier Forge

[ThomasPowers]

flour-salt mixtures I have read of before; I assume this is similar a paste of carbon containing stuff to keep O2 off.

And it does burn off just lasting long enough to cut down on the scaling...

Theophilus mentions taking a new cut file and greasing it and then wrapping it in leather and encasing the bundle in well kneaded  clay before heating---both protection from scaling and a bit of case hardening!

 

Aha:  Practical Blacksmithing, Vol III, Richardson pg 143-144:

To Harden Steel

A very fine preparation for making steel very hard is composed of wheat flower, salt and water, using say two teaspoons of water, one half of a teaspoon of flour, and one of salt; heat the steel to be hardened enough to coat it with the paste---by immersing it in the composition---after which heat it to a cherry-red and plunge it in cold, soft water. If properly done the steel will come out with a beautiful while surface.  It is said that Stubb's files are hardened in this manner.

(So can you share what your source is?---and remember this Predates Bing cherries so cherry red is an orangish colour!))

Edited March 16, 2015 by ThomasPowers

[Ohio Rusty]

The information is from:   The Illustrated Guide to Sheffield and the Surrounding District, Comprising Accounts of the Early History and Progress of the Town ...: And of the Suburban Scenery and Places of Interest ... (Google eBook), page 262 is where this information about the brewers grounds came from.

 

 

[Carl Greywolf]

Brewer's grounds? Sounds like coffee grounds, so I speculate a little here... as a small scale brewer I can say it'd be the remnants of the "mash", This is the barley, wheat and other grain soaked in hot water to release their sugars. After it has been used the spent mash was often used for animal feed. 

The moist grain mix will still contain a lot of sugars, just not good ones for brewing. There is a way this could be tested as an idea, coat a piece of metal in a strong sugar water + flour and heat to see if it reduces scale.

Until I build me own forge I can't even play with fire

Edited March 16, 2015 by Carl Greywolf
Derp moment

[Eddie Mullins]

Interesting topic of which I am not well versed. Is this similar to the use of sugar for case hardening?

[ThomasPowers]

That probably plays a part but keeping thin sections from decarburizing was the main thing. (and sugar was rather expensive the farther back you go...)

[Ohio Rusty]

My search of this book was originally on pen knives and penny knives of the 18th and 19th century. I want to make some of those little folders. Sheffield knives have been around for hundreds of years.  In perusing the book, there is so much different way-back-when how-to blacksmithing information on knives, files, saws, sickles and scythes and everything else that has an edge, I found the old information of the different areas of smithing of knives, files and other things very interesting. I like the learning of new-old things.  The Hammers and chisels they used to make these files are so much different that what we use today. As a side note ... do you know the average teeth per file that a file maker would cut into a file was 88 teeth per minute. One young file cutter boy was recorded as making 212 file tooth cuts in one minute !!!  That is fast work with a hammer and chisel. (not to mention really good eyesight) I also discovered there were alot of women that were file cutters and had small backyard shops attached to their houses. They could watch the children and make files earning some extra money for the household. Women were paid less than men and were paid by the gross (144 files in a gross). As an example, for one gross (144) of four inch long files, they were paid 4 shilling and six pence. That is probably only a couple dollars in todays money. Alot of hot work for little pay !!

Ohio Rusty

The Ohio Frontier Forge

[ThomasPowers]

I'm used to the file cutting being done cold; but still a lot of work!  Have you read Moxon, published 1703?  "If a good blade you would win you must forge thick and grind thin".  Also look at Diderot's Encyclopedia for late 18th century information on how things were done---in France.  The full version is more complete but some of the excerpts have parts of interest.