ironstein Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 I don't believe anyone has undermined U.S. industry more than the U.S. itself. Peacock said exactly what I was trying to say. James runs the hammers before shipping to the customer, as well as installing check valves for the oiler. If there were American self contained hammers for sale I would be first in line. (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I don't believe anyone has undermined U.S. industry more than the U.S. itself. Peacock said exactly what I was trying to say. James runs the hammers before shipping to the customer, as well as installing check valves for the oiler. If there were American self contained hammers for sale I would be first in line. (null)So I guess when I put a quote on a job and the GC says he got a price for 1/3 of your quote from some iron shop in Shanghai its my fault. We should pay people 2 dollars an hour and ignore health and safety rules. http://gma.yahoo.com/counterfeit-chinese-parts-slipping-u-military-aircraft-report-135759754--abc-news-topstories.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 How much did the last hammer to be built in the U.S. cost when it rolled off the line? Wasn't it pushing the $100,000 mark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 For some reason, when I use my phone to post, it leaves the "null" signature. (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 I agree with you Tim. I also agree that unions and capitalism have made it next to impossible to compete. There are a lot of American companies like wall mart that have systematically dismantled the way of life we once knew. I was a union Ironworkerfor 17 years and I have seen the corruption as well as the benefits. (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r smith Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I remember quite a few guys that have been at it for a long time talking about Nazels all over that would go for scrap price, and how no one wanted a big hammer like that, then a couple guys like Bondi and Paley got big hammers and suddenly they became popular. we'll see what resale value is in a couple years, but then again I think Anyang will still be in business LOL! I believe in the timeframe you are talking about anything coming out of industry related to smithing was scrap because virtually no-one was doing any smithing. I dont think that bondi and paley get all the credit for reviving the craft though some is definatly due to them. If I understand history correctly ABANA deserves a bit of credit as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 It can't be blamed on china. The same undercutting is happening right here. When I ran a small construction business we were constantly undercut by companies with illegal labor and poor safety practices. All I'm trying to say is that we can't generalize. It's happening everywhere. I am not pro china, I just happen to like my Chinese hammer. Don't get me wrong, every time I use it I want to tear off the plate that says "made in china"! (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r smith Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 How much did the last hammer to be built in the U.S. cost when it rolled off the line? Wasn't it pushing the $100,000 mark? Here is a quote from a practical machinist forum by reis. "I think the main reason for the "craze" towards air hammers is that the old ones were built like swiss watches- a Nazel or Chambersburg is a whole nother beast from a little 25lb mechanical- and when they stopped selling em in the 70's or early 80's, a 125lb Chambersburg was list price of almost $150K- So if you can get a Nazel 3B, say, for ten grand, you are getting the equivalent of a Two Hundred Thousand dollar plus machine in todays market." The entire thing can be read here: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/machinery-sale-wanted/wtb-power-hammer-106217/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 How much did the last hammer to be built in the U.S. cost when it rolled off the line? Wasn't it pushing the $100,000 mark? The last Little giant was made in 1980 it was only a couple thousand if I remember correctly. We also have Big blue, Phoenix hammers, Iron Kiss, and Kick ass hammers. I seriously doubt any currently made hammer is anything close to a new out of the box Nazel, Massy etc in terms of durability and service life. I personally bought a new hammer because I did not feel I had the skills to repair and maintain an older machine, resale value was the furthest thing from my mind. I would like to get an older industrial hammer as a second at some point because I am tired of changing dies all the time. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I am not pro china, I just happen to like my Chinese hammer. Don't get me wrong, every time I use it I want to tear off the plate that says "made in china"! (null) I hate the fact so many American jobs are sent to China but Anyang is Anyang. It's not an American company that's importing cheaper made goods back to the US using it's old brand name for huge profits to the robber barons. It's a Chinese made hammer with a Chinese name, no shame in that, but if was called a Chambersburg............ :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 Good point Macbruce. Tim, The hammers you mentioned were all options, but many have gone out of business and no longer have reps or parts available. I thought about an iron kiss, and still may buy one at some point, I wanted a self contained. I didn't want to deal with purchasing a separate compressor. I have heard nothing but great things about the iron kiss hammers. I understand everyone's loathsome attitude about china, but Anyang makes forging equipment that is used all over the world, modeled after a tried and true design. If it is a good product that works and will make me money, and no one in America makes a hammer like it then Anyang it is. (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevan Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Iron, I have followed this thread with much interest. I have had my C40 Anyang (88lbs) for over 10 years and it has performed flawlessly with one exception, the oiler. Please give me some insight into what has been done by the American importer to remedy this rather irritating problem. I can vouch for everything positive said about the Anyang. I bought mine directly from the factory in China through the internet and the service I received from them was unbelievably excellent. I also have a Chinese lathe which is ok-ish but not in the league of the Anyang Thanks, Kevan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Little Giant price list from7-1-81. 25# $5005.01 50# $6629.43 100# $10,155.91 250# $20,858.55 500# $35,094.65. Thats without motor, switch, ram or belt guards. These items for a 100# added$3006.75. Just thought someone might like to know. I think I read somewhere the last offerings from Chamberburg were around $300,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Tom Ryan of Konig iron in Long island city has a Chambersburg self contained hammer in real good shape It is a wonderful machine. Honestly it looks like something that cost major big bucks to build. The difference between it and my saymak, is kind of like difference between a Craftsman and Snap-on wrench. But than again a a new Craftsman wrench is better than a broken Snap-on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 Kevan, What James does is put one way check valves on the oiler lines, they have needle valves to adjust the amount of oil going into the hammer. The front oiler that is piped into the ram cylinder can be turned off, as the rear oiler will be enough to oil the whole machine (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I think I read somewhere the last offerings from Chamberburg were around $300,000 I suspect what happened to LG and Chambersburg had allot to do with Unions (which I normally support)and Government regulations jacking their prices into the stratosphere. When I need some 5'' piston rings for my 200lb utility 10-12 years ago they wanted $90 apiece for em, I got them custom made for less than half that. The hammer was also missing the foot treadle so I asked about that too......$700! Small wonder they went under......When the guy pushin a broom around the shop is getting +$20 an hr it's gonna cripple any business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 Maybe James Johnson will explain what all he does to make the oiler more efficient. (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 Yep Macbruce, I was in the Ironworkers union a long time, it's a shame when the prices get driven up to feed the fat cats at the top. I became so disgusted with how corporate america gets away with filing for bankruptcy with 4 billion in the bank (corporate airlines), and it's considered good business practice, but when the average person does it, their credit is destroyed and they are frowned upon. (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 I will take some pictures tomorrow. I made a bunch of tools for the hammer in the last few days. Trying to get back into the swing of things after back surgery. The taper die I made was more for long tapers, it gets kind of limited on short tapers. I'll probably make another one like you talked about. (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don schad Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 ... you can actually forge and the axle will last longer. What about a harder axle and have it sitting on a soft plate (soft plate between the bottom of the axle and the PH die). The flat plate will deform but the axle will stay rounder, longer. Make the flat plate easy to remove/replace and then you can really wallop without fear. don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Take a look at Tim's die, that is the Cadillac way of doing it. Another way to go is to use a half round in a v block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I've found that 30 degrees is about the absolute max for a taper die and has to be near a welding heat at that to pull it off..................... Ratserfrazzin Chinese! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 What about a harder axle and have it sitting on a soft plate (soft plate between the bottom of the axle and the PH die). The flat plate will deform but the axle will stay rounder, longer. Make the flat plate easy to remove/replace and then you can really wallop without fear. don I think if both the bottom plate and the axle were hard stuff 4140 or the like and if the bottom plate cupped the axle like a swage you would have a longer lasting tool. Make a shroud to cover the bottom die to keep the scale out now your talking. You don't really want to forge with the taper tool because it will notch the steel up a bit at the beginning and end of the taper. The longer tool I made originally produces better finishes than the die set but the die set is by far more time efficient. Hand held tools work well to. I am doing heavy production so keeping both hands on the steel helps me get it done faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I've found that 30 degrees is about the absolute max for a taper die and has to be near a welding heat at that to pull it off..................... Ratserfrazzin Chinese!if its too cold its a good way to get punched in the belly with the end of your tongs too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.