don schad Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 Hi all, I would like to raise my LG 50 about 5 inches or so. I commonly see that people use timbers for this, but I was wondering about using concrete to get the extra mass. My question is whether or not a 6" concrete pad would survive for very long or turn to dust quickly. Ultimately I would like to pour a larger/deeper foundation but I don't want to do that until I'm completely confident that I wont want to move the thing across the building, or rotate it 53 degrees one way or the other. I am also speculating that the timbers would take some of the ooomph out of the hammer. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks, don Quote
macbruce Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 I've kinda been wondering the same thing only I need 10-12'' thick.......Are you setting it on top of an existing concrete floor? Setting vertical rods in the original floor to prevent lateral movement seems a must.......But whether or not a small cast slab can take it is the question.......I mounted a 250 utl on timbers after having to remove it from a 2.5 ton foundation and it was a sad transition......... Quote
don schad Posted October 6, 2011 Author Posted October 6, 2011 I've kinda been wondering the same thing only I need 10-12'' thick.......Are you setting it on top of an existing concrete floor? Setting vertical rods in the original floor to prevent lateral movement seems a must.......But whether or not a small cast slab can take it is the question.......I mounted a 250 utl on timbers after having to remove it from a 2.5 ton foundation and it was a sad transition......... It would actually be on a brick floor, so I could remove a layer of bricks and get another 3" or so. It currently sits on a piece of 1/2 plywood on the bricks...I don't know if they are actually bricks or pieces of bricks under it at the moment. If I recall correctly, I read somewhere (perhap Sid S's site) that the LG plans were significantly over-engineered in terms of size, but there wasn't an indication of by how much. I agree that rods would be required to keep it in place if it were on top of the floor. If I sink it the additional portion perhaps the wouldn't be necessary (although it could cause trouble if it pushes up against the bricks). Mine tends to process clock-wise (I hear they go the other way in the souther hemisphere). don Quote
Dave Hammer Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 I'd recommend just using 6x6 treated lumber (hardwood is better, but a lot more expensive and not really necessary), cut to length and bolted together with threaded rod. Make the overall size large enough to have at least three inches longer and wider (all the way around, so six inches longer and wider) than the frame base. Use 1/2 inch lag bolts (long enough to go into the base 5 inches) to anchor the hammer. You can sit the timber on top of your bricks to get the height you want and corral the 6x6's with angle iron that is anchor bolted into the bricks or just use long rods driven down into the ground (drill holes). All you need to do is keep it from vibrating around. If you don't like using lag bolts, make a template and drill the holes all the way through, then use a large blade bit (1,5 inch) on the bottom of the 6x6's to drill in far enough to allow the bolt heads and a washer to clear the bottom. Lag bolts will work though, I have used them on a similar hammer.... just be sure the 6x6's are solid. Add something to the treadle so you can use it with your heel on the floor. Quote
Lamey Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 I had a #65 Champion set up just about the way Dave described above, it was simply lag bolted into a 6x6 base, the 6x6'x were "sandwiched" between a sheet of 3/4" plywood on top/bottom. There were 4 holes drilled through the 6x6 base, with solid steel 1" rods going into the concrete 4", they had a flat welded to the top so they wouldnt go down further then the wood base, and they were easy to remove etc. This set up worked very well, and the base never moved, and this hammer was used hard. The only thing I did notice was at full treadle you would get a VERY slight rocking motion to the hammer, and I mean very slight. So I would use the largest lag bolts that will work for your application. If memory serves me the ones in mine only went into the base maybe 4 to 5" max. Im contimplating setting up another hammer in this fashion, one thing I like about this method is your hammer is fairly "portable" if you plan on adding to the shop etc. You dont have a bunch of time, money etc. tied up into pouring a large/deep footing. Quote
don schad Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 Thanks for the input. The wood sounds like a sure bet, but I'm still wondering about the extra mass of the concrete (and if it will stay together). I post something when I'm done. Thanks, don Quote
Francis Trez Cole Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 here is a picture of my hammer as I was rebuilding it. The base is 2"x6" bolted together. I lifted up the paver's on my floor and poured a 36"x 48"x 18" block of concrete. replaced the paver's and set the hammer on top used 4"x4"x1/4" angle iron to attach the wood to the concrete. It has worked real well and I had enough room to attach the post for the motor to the concrete as well. Quote
Wesley Chambers Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 cant see much in those pics >_< Quote
Dave Hammer Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 I'm not sure 6" of concrete would be much more value than heavy 6 x 6's (and I would have concerns about it cracking). The entire concrete slab would add significant weight to the hammer unit, but the only weight that would help with the ram/anvil ratio would be the concrete directly under the anvil (cone downward). I doubt it would significantly change the forging action (beyond what heavy solid 6x6's would provide). If you are going to go with concrete and it's not much larger than the base of the hammer, I wouldn't do less than 12", and probably (personally) would recommend at least 18". If my goal was to increase the ram/anvil weight ratio (and still be able to move the hammer), I would add a thick steel plate (3 inches thick or more) under the hammer, and put a hardwood base over the steel to get the height I want. Quote
Francis Trez Cole Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 hope this is better I was not home and tried to copy from an other thread cant see much in those pics >_< Quote
don schad Posted November 4, 2011 Author Posted November 4, 2011 So I ended up going with the wood: . A lot easier then the concrete and it seems to work well. I definitely like the increased height. I have two layers of 2-by for the base (each layer running opposed to the other) and a 3/4" plywood directly under the hammer. Four - 1/2" carrage bolts connect to the base from the underside (these were counter sunk on the bottom so they weren't touching the floor). I have to make a treadle extension so I can work without having to lift my foot as much and drive some bolts into the floor to keep the hammer from wondering around. don Quote
Don Hanson Posted November 6, 2011 Posted November 6, 2011 A wood base will work fine, but a hammer will hit harder with a huge chunk of concrete under it. Here are mine, with aprox 3 feet under them and 6" above the floor. The new one on right does not have enough concrete, but it'll have to do. Quote
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