Pneumatic question related to Phoenix hammer

[smithworks]

Hello All,

Some of you might have seen my recent post "who's got a steam hammer they want to sell me" where I stated I have a Phoenix hammer with 170lbs ram. This hammer works ok for single blows, it would be a lot better if it didn't have one major issue. For some reason, when the hammer ram returns to the top of the stroke it does not have any dampening action and therefore slams into the retaining plate attached to the end of the air cylinder piston (there are some bushings in there to help soften the impact). I have found that the Phoenix people are very poor on customer support, as after several attempts no one has bothered to return my calls. Supposedly the pneumatic system is designed to send some air to the cylinder to dampen the return, they state on their web site about having your foot snap off the treadle to allow this to happen or something like this. Anyway, every once in a while (1 out of 100) it will, but when I try to repeat what I thought I did to have this happen it almost always never works. This is only a bad thing because the hammer is starting to destroy itself, tearing those bushings up and shearing the 1/2" bolts that connect the top of the hammer ram to the air piston. I have tried adjusting everything there is to adjust in hopes of correcting this to no avail.

So now I am thinking... when I first supply air to the hammer as the pressure gauge rises the hammer ram is lifted around 20-30psi. What if I put a regulator in the line that supplies the air cylinders movement to raise the hammer ram and limit it to 20-30psi, giving it just enough air to return it at slower speed than the 125psi that is supplied to the rest of the system.

For someone with limited pneumatic knowledge this seams to me that it would work and be something I could do relatively easily, quickly, and cheaply.

However, the system of returning air to the cylinder to dampen the movement seams like a slicker and better way to remedy the problem, but again for me, I don't know how to go about doing it.

Any suggestions?

I would just like to take a moment to thank everyone for responding to my various post. I have just starting using this forum and have found it to be a wealth of helpfulness. I have several friends that are smiths who I utilize for info on a regular basis, but as usual the more informed a decision made, the better.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Putting a regulator between the control valve and the cylinder port will not work. A regulator will only pass air in one direction, so you could send air to the ram, but would not be able to exhaust it.

[macbruce]

maybe this will help........Shown is the control for ''Bull'' type hammer that I built for myself........Note the adjustable double yoke linkage between the ball valve and the control (it should be pretty much the same on yours)........
with the pedal fully depressed, it should be in clamp mode. When you lift the treadle it should take two seconds +- for the ram to return to the top, (sounds like yours is way faster)......If it is faster lengthen the adjustable dbl yoke linkage rod a couple of turns and see if that helps.....If it does, keep going until you're at 2 seconds.......And that should help.......mb

[John Larson]

Sounds like your cylinder doesn't have a proper air cushion. If you provide the serial number off the cylinder I can look up whether or not it does,

[ciladog]

Smithworks,

The air throttle (the ball valve connected to the linkage with two clevis yokes) need to be almost completely closed when the treadle is up on those Phoenix hammers. If it isn’t, then the exhaust air leaves the cylinder too fast when you snap your foot of the treadle.

Try this, disconnect the air throttle from the linkage and operate the hammer. It will work slowly but you will be able to adjust it so the cylinder stops slamming up. When you get it adjusted correctly reattach the linkage.

[smithworks]

Grant - I'm glad you informed me of this. Totally makes sense. That would have been a huge waste of time and a lot of frustration.

Mac - I think I tried adjusting this, but I will give it another try in the morning.

John - If the adjustment Mac recommended does not work I will definitely get you serial number (if there is one to be found) to look up about the presence of an air cushion. That would be a great help.

Thanks everyone!

[Madmike]

Air cushions are usually adjustable using a 'metering screw' located near the port on the caps of the cylinders, some cylinders are only cushioned one one end, some on the two and some aren't at all
If you fail finding the serial, have a look on the caps and try to find the adjusting screw on the upper cap in a hole smaller than the port usually next to it on the same cap face.
Even if Mac's tip is the way Phoenix thought their hammers and even if they put some 'dampening bumpers' between the ram and top plate if the cylinder has cushions, you should use at least the upper one, belt and braces ;)

[steve murdock]

I have the complete set-up manual in PDF which I would be happy to send to you if you would like. You will get the best results if you adjust linkages etc. in the sequential order they are presented in this manual. It is complete with good quality photo's and detailed explanations. The only thing not covered is cylinder cushion adjustment which may not even be a factor once you have everything else adjusted properly. Let me know if you would like me to send this to you and give me your email. I'd be glad to send this to anyone else who might be interested. Same set up applies to the Bull 90 and 125.

Steve

[tomtheblacksmith]

Dear smithworks,

Steve Murdock is correct, he/we can send you an illustrated set-up and adjustment guide. follow this (start to finish, in order), and your hammer should run exactly as new, exactly as in our control demonstration video. We also offer a text-only troubleshooting guide, which has been helpful for others in the past. However, it does not include instructions for adjusting the cylinder cushions, so I will get to work on adding that, thanks all for bringing it to my attention. If you have "tried every possible adjustment" without following the established procedure you may have made things worse, not better. Look at the control demo video for an example of how all of the Bull/Phoenix control hammer should behave.

Basically, if the ram is slamming up fast when you take your foot off the treadle, most likely the throttle link is adjusted way too short for the current inlet pressure, or you are being sluggish when removing your foot from the treadle. Simply clamp the ram down and snap your foot off the treadle QUICKLY, so that the throttle valve snaps (almost) shut before the ram starts back up. The ram should take nearly a full second to rise back to the top, with the throttle"snapped back" in the "idle" position. If the ram slams back up quickly, the throttle link needs adjusting: follow the directions exactly and your hammer should perform as good as new. All the Bull/Phoenix hammers had air cushions on both ends of the original cylinder, but the cushion only works on the last 3/4" of the stroke. The cushion seals for almost all hammers ever shipped are standard NFPA style, and we keep complete seal kits in stock for all of the cylinders we have ever supplied, except a few cylinders shipped in 1998-1999 that were built by Hennels. In any case, if your top cushion seal is shot, rob the bottom one for a spare until we can send you a replacement. The bottom cushion seal never gets any use unless you a running the hammer with one or both of the dies removed.

Also, the cylinder on your hammer is capable of lifting more than 500 lbs (depending on the supply air pressure) so you can add weight to the ram for heavier single blows when needed for a special application. Yes, adding weight slows down the cycle time but this should not be an issue for single blows. I have added up to 100 lbs (for 250 lb total ram weight) to these same hammers for blanking and coining operations, and the results were brilliant. The weight can be added in the form of a 1" thick round plate up to 12-1/2" dia., drilled to match the die bolt pattern, and installed between the bottom of the ram and top of the the bottom die, (the die bolts must be lengthened by 1" as well). For convenience you can use steel pipe flange plates, a blind flange for the bottom, then stack 1 or more 6" threaded steel flanges stacked on top of the plate (surrounding the bottom end of the ram itself. The 6" threaded flange clears the 6" round bottom end of the ram itself nicely. Bolt the flanges to the plate around the edges and you are good to go. As long as the weights do not hit anything this should work fine for occasional projects. hope this is helpful.